tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post1162481058371458602..comments2024-03-24T05:54:23.612-05:00Comments on Weedon's Blog: Something I've Puzzled Over...William Weedonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01383850332591975790noreply@blogger.comBlogger45125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-68934323277955238862009-08-24T11:16:31.909-05:002009-08-24T11:16:31.909-05:00Christopher,
I certainly wish Luther had preceded...Christopher,<br /><br />I certainly wish Luther had preceded otherwise on this, but given the way that the texts were explained in his day, it might have been asking the impossible. <br /><br />What I find fascinating is that in the next generation, when Chemnitz runs through the Canon in Examen, there are numerous prayers that he praises, though pointing out how a Lutheran understanding of them differs from a papist's. He approves: "We offer our supplications that You would regard as acceptable and would bless these gifts, these presents, these sacrifices" from the Offertory. He praises: "We offer to you this sacrifice of praise for the redemption of our souls, for the hope of salvation." He praises: "Deign to grant also to us sinners, Thy servants, who hope in greatness of Thy compassion, some share and fellowship with Thy saints, not by appraising our merits but by granting forgiveness through Christ our Lord." He regards: "to whose merits and prayers" as patched onto this. Rightly understood, he approves: "Graciously receive this offering, and order our days in Your peace and command that we be saved from eternal damnation" and similarly "Deign to render this offered blessed, ascribed to us, approved, reasonable, acceptable." He argues that the likening of the sacrifice to Abel and Melchizedek was originally part of the offertory and should be understood of the bread and wine, not the body and blood (based on the traditional Secret prayer for 7th Sunday after Pentecost). He approves "through Christ, through whom You always create all these good things for us, hallow, bless, and grant them to us; through Him be to Thee, God the Father, all honor and praise in the unity of the Holy Spirit."<br /><br />Putting together what he has explicitly approved, it seems a crying shame that the Lutheran Church did not seek to remove only the objectionable portions from the canon (that they felt could not be brought into conformity with the truth of God's Word) and to have retained the rest. Had they done so, I think we'd have seen a prayer along these lines:<br /><br />We offer to You this sacrifice of praise for the redemption of our souls, for the hope of eternal salvation. Graciously receive this offering and order our days in Your peace, and command that we be saved from eternal damnation through Christ our Lord.<br /><br />On the night...<br /><br />Wherefore, we Your servants, as also Your holy people, calling to mind the blessed Passion of the same Christ, Your Son, our Lord, His resurrection from the dead and glorious Ascension into heaven, give thanks to Your most excellent Majesty for the gifts here bestowed upon us, the holy bread of eternal life and the cup of everlasting salvation. <br /><br />Deign to grant also to us sinners, Your servants, who hope in greatness of Your compassion, some share and fellowship with Your saints, not by appraising our merits but by granting forgiveness through Christ our Lord.<br /><br />Through Him You always create all these good things for us, hallow, bless, and grant them to us; through Him be to You, God the Father, all honor and praise in the unity of the Holy Spirit.<br /><br />At least, it strikes me that Chemnitz would have been open to such a reception of much of the Canon. But that's merely a guess going by his words in Examen.<br /><br />Off to lunch! Pax!William Weedonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01383850332591975790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-22936231815223276032009-08-24T10:35:19.099-05:002009-08-24T10:35:19.099-05:00Actually, Luther did not say that
No, Luther did ...<i>Actually, Luther did not say that</i><br /><br />No, Luther did not say that; he <i><b>did</b></i> it (he, and the compilers of Lutheran Church Orders who followed him). He cut the heart out of the Mass because it did not conform to his theological opinions (viz. it "stank of oblation").<br /><br />Luther (and those who followed him) drew their theological conclusions and then performed surgery on the liturgy to make it conform. That stands <i>lex orandi lex est credendi</i> on its head. And it is precisely the sort of thing that St Basil had in mind when he wrote (in the same paragraph that you quoted above) <i>if we were to attempt to reject those customs which have no written authority, on the ground that the importance they possess is small, we should unintentionally injure the Gospel in its very vitals.</i><br /><br />If St Basil was right, then Luther was wrong. If the liturgy is a matter of Apostolic Tradition then Luther had no right to make of it an artifact of his own crafting. On this point, at least, you may follow the Fathers or you may follow Luther. You cannot pretend that they teach and practice the same. You must choose.<br /><br />I know where I stand.Chris Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03220498656377282715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-43865932630809993702009-08-24T08:08:33.079-05:002009-08-24T08:08:33.079-05:00Actually, Luther did not say that, Chris. He spec...Actually, Luther did not say that, Chris. He specifically spoke of the anamnesis as a "preaching, praising, and thanking God for the grace of Christ shown to us poor sinners by his suffering." And he adds: "God instituted this sacrament chiefly for the sake of this remembrance." (AE 38:111) While Lutheran liturgy has historically been rather brief on this thanksgiving, it has always had it in some form: the Preface, in the Exhortation to Communicants, in prayers before the Consecration, in the Communion hymnody itself.William Weedonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01383850332591975790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-65758817358065978962009-08-24T07:55:33.129-05:002009-08-24T07:55:33.129-05:00PE,
the whole canon/anaphora/EP thing is best lef...PE,<br /><br /><i>the whole canon/anaphora/EP thing is best left out since Christ did not put it in</i><br /><br />Is it really true that Christ did not put it in? I am not so sure. When He said "This do in remembrance of me," what is the word "this" referring to? Is it referring to "take, eat" only, or to the whole action of Christ: taking bread, giving thanks, breaking the bread, and distributing it?<br /><br />He did not say, quote my words verbatim; He said, do what I have done. And what He did included a prayer of thanksgiving over the bread and wine. And the constant practice of the Church from the Apostles' time to Luther was to offer a prayer of thanksgiving over the bread and wine, because "this do" was understood to include the action of giving thanks. Only Luther decided that "this do" meant "repeat my words" and nothing more.Chris Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03220498656377282715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-77197465884513643732009-08-21T10:15:41.064-05:002009-08-21T10:15:41.064-05:00Kiran, in the 16th century, there was a great insi...Kiran, in the 16th century, there was a great insistence on exact lockstep following with what was legislated out of Rome. I think it goes back to certain canons of Gratian that said, in effect, that whatever was going on in Rome was normative for the whole Church. There was also the question of what Tradition was, with one of the dominant views that it was a parallel oral tradition, handed down from the apostles, that contained things like the canon of the Mass and the exact form of the rite of confirmation.<br /><br />Take it with a grain of salt; my history is rusty.Fearsome Piratehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12171985273546955313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-21747288426853848232009-08-20T15:59:55.486-05:002009-08-20T15:59:55.486-05:00A very thought provoking post. Your honest inquir...A very thought provoking post. Your honest inquiries are a blessing to all who read them.<br /><br />Fr Daniel HackneyDanielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04351586738869558601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-28942091436021172992009-08-20T10:51:10.518-05:002009-08-20T10:51:10.518-05:00Oh for the cat's sake, the whole thing is said...Oh for the cat's sake, the whole thing is said silently in the West anyway, until Vatican II, Trent pronouncing anathema on anyone who says this is wrong (session 22, canon 9), silent being really in a low voice so good altar boys like me know when to ring the bloody bell.<br /><br />The silent canon is counted a positive, in which the agency of a mere man is reduced to an absolute minimum, that the timeless action of Christ stand out, lifting man from the noise of this present world to the rest and repose beyond this world's din in silent awe.<br /><br />Even the prayer that goes before is called the Secret for jumping Judas' sake.<br /><br />The most learned, reverend, altogether to be esteemed, and of course Benedictine, Dom Gueranger, tied the whole audible canon thing to the damn Jansenists.<br /><br />Even the word canon itself, which means rule, supports Dix. It is the rule by which the Sacrament is confected -- the form or shape. Verba or no Verba.<br /><br />When Jesus was unlocked from heaven, so zu sagen, and worked in his body, Jesus, he said Take and Eat, Take and Drink, not Take and Adore, nor Take and Pray either.<br /><br />What kind of benching is more into the benching itself than what one is benching about? (If you don't know what benching is, well, as Melanie Griffith said in A Stranger Among Us, ask your Rabbi.)<br /><br />No benching that obscures the Word of Christ, or thinks it is sufficient apart from it, however well meant, is of Christ. Which is why rather than open the can of worms that is the whole canon thing, a history of a well meant but misguided piety, leave the bleeder out, as stated in the quotation happily supplied by die Christine.Past Elderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10541968132598367551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-51451535308215538552009-08-20T09:05:21.465-05:002009-08-20T09:05:21.465-05:00Of course the other problem is the oldest liturgy ...Of course the other problem is the oldest liturgy we have record of (the East Syrian Liturgy of Addai and Mari) does not even contain the words of institution at all.<br /><br />Bradshaw's "Essays on Early Eastern Eucharistic Prayers" is an indispensable resource for scholarship on the Eastern anaphoras.<br /><br />And, for the record, I was merely offering Dix as a reference to everyone on the thread. I assumed that Pastor Weedon had already in fact read him (since there are in fact allusions to Dix in his post).Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00463464834576379106noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-25830623662197010642009-08-20T08:49:55.489-05:002009-08-20T08:49:55.489-05:00...the whole canon/anaphora/EP thing is best left ......<i>the whole canon/anaphora/EP thing is best left out since Christ did not put it in, which of itself would not be so bad, but it obscures what HE put it, the only thing HE put it.</i><br /><br />It should be noted that in the Byzantine Rites, normally, the anaphora is unheard by those in the nave. The primary thing heard is the Words of Institution, and the exclamations following the anaphora.<br /><br />Of course, saying that the ONLY thing Christ put in were the Words of Institution is like claiming Christ is locked in heaven bodily and has not been working in His Body, the Church. That sounds rather Calvinistic or Zwinglian to me.123https://www.blogger.com/profile/14514075641944568806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-31621436747944183842009-08-19T21:11:27.819-05:002009-08-19T21:11:27.819-05:00Well, though I would point out that Dix' concl...Well, though I would point out that Dix' conclusions were controversial in his day and are still contended, nonetheless the string is unbroken and I agree with Dr Tighe that Dix' assessment is entirely accurate from a historical point of view.<br /><br />And that being the case, all the more reason that history is no guide to dogma or truth, and that the whole canon/anaphora/EP thing is best left out since Christ did not put it in, which of itself would not be so bad, but it obscures what HE put it, the only thing HE put it.<br /><br />And to make full disclosure, I was as a Catholic and am as a Lutheran a big fan of Cardinal Manning, especially by contrast to his ludicrous contemporary Newman.Past Elderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10541968132598367551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-20941428489511243932009-08-19T21:08:25.385-05:002009-08-19T21:08:25.385-05:00@Past Elder:
“And now it has finally come to this...@Past Elder:<br /><br />“And now it has finally come to this: the chief thing in the mass has been forgotten, and nothing is remembered except the additions of men! … Indeed, the greatest and most useful art is to know what really and essentially belongs to the mass, and what is added and foreign to it. For where there is no clear distinction, the eyes and the heart are easily misled by such sham into a false impression and delusion. Then what men have contrived is considered the mass; and what the mass really is, is never experienced, to say nothing of deriving benefit from it ... If we desire to observe mass properly and to understand it, then we must surrender everything that the eyes behold and that the senses suggest – be it vestments, bells, songs, ornaments, prayers, processions, elevations, prostrations, or whatever happens in the mass – <b>until we first grasp and thoroughly ponder the words of Christ, by which he performed and instituted the mass and commanded us to perform it.</b> (emphasis mine) For therein lies the whole mass, its nature, work, profit, and benefit. Without the words nothing is derived from the mass.”<br /><br />So sayeth the venerable Herr Doktor Luther in agreement with your views.<br /><br />ChristineAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-71470247245094500872009-08-19T19:13:31.878-05:002009-08-19T19:13:31.878-05:00"A pre-eminent scholar of liturgy, yet didn&#..."A pre-eminent scholar of liturgy, yet didn't even think the Verba were of the essence but rather the shape or order of service."<br /><br />A view in which he was entirely correct historically, if not dogmatically; and in which Lutherans can vie with "Romanists" in crying "we must defeat history by dogma" (a phrase attributed to Cardinal Manning).William Tighehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16634494183165592707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-17611785314661059562009-08-19T18:54:23.889-05:002009-08-19T18:54:23.889-05:00Dix himself is an example of the fruitlessness of ...Dix himself is an example of the fruitlessness of all this liturgical discussion. A pre-eminent scholar of liturgy, yet didn't even think the Verba were of the essence but rather the shape or order of service.<br /><br />As long as we buy into for liturgy the same approach we reject for Scripture, an historical-critical approach, we will get the same result from it in liturgy as we already do in faith -- several faiths all contending for the name Christian.<br /><br />Regional variations over the entire church are one thing; variations for the church irrespective of region are another. The latter have only validity of whatever bunch of scholars came up with them and whatever denom said OK.<br /><br />Liturgical books with multiple services, multiple lectionaries, multiple calendars only invite endless wrangling over what else should be included in the multiplicity, and the multiplicity will itself invite multiplicity of doctrine and understanding.<br /><br />And this is nowhere more clear than with the canon, anaphora, Eucharistic Prayer or whatever else on wishes to call it. It was a stroke of genius to remove it from the Divine Service. It's one of those things that whatever its venerable tradition and however good its original intent, has brought nothing but trouble and division, and the Words of the Lord, the only part which has his command, suffice.<br /><br />We can bench all we want, but when push comes to shove at the Eucharist, he needs no elaboration from us as he gives us his body and blood as his testament and the pledge of our salvation.Past Elderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10541968132598367551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-55551273589195357852009-08-19T17:36:37.831-05:002009-08-19T17:36:37.831-05:00Lucian,
Behave yourself.
Chris,
The forward loo...Lucian,<br /><br />Behave yourself.<br /><br />Chris,<br /><br />The forward looking question is the one to answer. We have what we have been given; how may we most faithfully live in that and hand it on to the next generation. LSB provides a thoroughly Lutheran and faithful way of worship (yes, Terry, even with its five orders of Divine Service), and we see in LSB a few more steps toward cautiously putting together the "hole" that removal of the canon (apart from the Verba) effected. I would gladly have seen more, but it is clearly moving in the right direction. Other Lutherans (like SELK) have long since restored a whole anaphora; and the LCMS still has the whole anaphoras found in Worship Supplement (fast becoming ancient history). It may be a pipe dream, but what I encourage is that each pastor of Synod use faithfully and use fully the liturgy we have in our hymnal, catechize according to the beautiful insights of the Small Catechism, and so seek to hand onto the next generation a lived experience of the faith that can continue to grow and where it has been damaged to be restored.William Weedonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01383850332591975790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-18430359140059717352009-08-19T06:26:17.058-05:002009-08-19T06:26:17.058-05:00LOL! :-) What will You post next? Another dozen pa...LOL! :-) What will You post next? Another dozen pages of text, mesmerizing at how You've recently discovered the perplexing fact that the Earth is round, and that it rotates around the Sun? :-) [Sorry, I mean no offense: You know I like You].The Blogger Formerly Known As Lvkahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09663692507774640889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-315285164498290152009-08-19T01:22:37.116-05:002009-08-19T01:22:37.116-05:00Certainly his scholarship stands on its own, apart...Certainly his scholarship stands on its own, apart from his personal religious fantasies.<br /><br />Just as "Anglican Benedictines" stand outside the Order of St Benedict.<br /><br />Just as the "Church of England" stands outside of, well ...Past Elderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10541968132598367551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-48300871672143155882009-08-18T23:55:04.283-05:002009-08-18T23:55:04.283-05:00there is absolutely no such thing, really, as an A...<i>there is absolutely no such thing, really, as an Anglican Benedictine</i><br /><br />This is a rather silly remark that is not worthy of you, Terry. I can only regard it as an attempt to impugn the <i>bona fides</i> of Dom Gregory Dix; but even if his status as an "Anglican Benedictine" is inconsistent or incoherent(which it is not), his scholarship nevertheless stands on its own merits.<br /><br />There is nothing in the confessional documents (such as they are) of the Church of England that forbids or denigrates monasticism (unlike the Lutheran Confessions); the suppression of the monasteries in England was not theologically motivated, but rather a politically-motivated royal plundering of the monastic lands. Nor is there anything in the Rule of St Benedict (so far as I know) that requires those aspects of Papal Catholicism that the English Reformation rejected.<br /><br />So a monk who follows the rule of St Benedict may plausibly claim to be a Benedictine; and a monk who is in communion with the Church of England may plausibly claim to be an Anglican. What shall we call such a man, if not an "Anglican Benedictine"?Chris Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03220498656377282715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-76496668174145541052009-08-18T23:23:50.648-05:002009-08-18T23:23:50.648-05:00Just an aside -- you realise, of course, there is ...Just an aside -- you realise, of course, there is absolutely no such thing, really, as an Anglican Benedictine, which is true on both Benedictine and truly Anglican, prior to 19th century Romantic fantasies, grounds.Past Elderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10541968132598367551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-34674476849147764882009-08-18T22:24:15.600-05:002009-08-18T22:24:15.600-05:00Christine,
Just about every liturgical tradition ...Christine,<br /><br /><i>Just about every liturgical tradition has been afflicted</i><br /><br />"Just about," perhaps; but not absolutely every one has been so afflicted.<br /><br />Fr Weedon,<br /><br /><i>if we'd not gotten into this whole worship wars thingy and the Missouri Synod had simply ploughed on with her liturgy, faithfully celebrated in her parishes</i><br /><br />Of course, "simply ploughing along with her liturgy" is just another way of saying "being faithful to the Apostolic Tradition," which is what St Basil was saying. Not that the text itself of the LCMS liturgy (or any other) is immutable or akin to Holy Writ, but that there is a certain irreducible essence, structure, and function, without which the liturgy cannot be recognized as Apostolic.<br /><br />Once we begin to regard the liturgy as <i>our response</i> to the Gospel (rather than being the Apostolic way in which the Gospel itself is delivered), then it is a small step to regarding it as something of our own crafting, subject to no guidelines beyond personal taste and/or popularity. And then the pattern of liturgy given to us in the Apostolic Tradition will be left behind as a thing of no value.<br /><br />So yes, "if only" Missouri had been faithful to her liturgy; but also "if only" Dr Luther had not gutted the ancient pattern of the anaphora, and "if only" Rome had not adulterated the Creed with her own theological opinions (which our Lutheran fathers then followed). But "if only" has little value; only "what can we do about it" is worth asking.Chris Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03220498656377282715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-88764892669262622242009-08-18T20:43:10.809-05:002009-08-18T20:43:10.809-05:00Have you ever imagined what things would have been...<i>Have you ever imagined what things would have been like (dangerous, I know) if we'd not gotten into this whole worship wars thingy and the Missouri Synod had simply ploughed on with her liturgy, faithfully celebrated in her parishes, and continued concentrating her efforts on solid Law/Gospel preaching and catechesis?</i><br /><br />Pastor Weedon, I do remember such a time. All the Lutheran churches in which I worshipped as a child, including those in the LCMS, were remarkably free of the worship wars. The liturgy in the ALC parish in which I was confirmed ws hardly different from the liturgy of the LCMS.<br /><br />But we are certainly not alone in this. Just about every liturgical tradition has been afflicted. The so-called unity that was supposed to happen after the adoption of the common lectionary has been anything but.<br /><br />I even doubt that the preconciliar popes would recognize as Catholic what goes on in the average suburban RC parish. I wouldn't have believed it myself if I hadn't seen and heard it with my own eyes and ears.<br /><br />Nevertheless I am very much encouraged by the fact that there are still parishes in the LCMS that are evangelical and catholic. If we have to shrink for a time and then rebuild so be it.<br /><br />A certain German pope has said the same thing about his own communion.<br /><br />ChristineAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-12098565397735725232009-08-18T20:42:55.417-05:002009-08-18T20:42:55.417-05:00I think though that the Roman point would have bee...I think though that the Roman point would have been that changing something as fundamental as that, <i>in and of itself</i> carries with it consequences. This is to say "Lex Orandi Lex Credendi," I suppose, with a Mary Douglas twist to it. Liturgical change, and certainly liturgical change that was that radical, does not come without a price. <br /><br />The question is whether the consequence was desirable, and sufficiently so to make the change worthwhile.Kiranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15869694933362233326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-90515048923387559162009-08-18T17:21:49.454-05:002009-08-18T17:21:49.454-05:00Christine,
Have you ever imagined what things wou...Christine,<br /><br />Have you ever imagined what things would have been like (dangerous, I know) if we'd not gotten into this whole worship wars thingy and the Missouri Synod had simply ploughed on with her liturgy, faithfully celebrated in her parishes, and continued concentrating her efforts on solid Law/Gospel preaching and catechesis? I think about it often, and shake my head at how Satan has pulled a fast one on us yet again. What fools we are to DEBATE liturgy rather than simply to pray and live within it, and from it, to reach out to a world that is dying for the communion we have in Christ our Lord!William Weedonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01383850332591975790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-15618015237398824512009-08-18T15:44:01.311-05:002009-08-18T15:44:01.311-05:00What always gets me is the assumption that somethi...<i>What always gets me is the assumption that something some person wrote for a special worship service used today and gone tomorrow is somehow more, what?, engaging? than the prayers we've prayed together for hundreds of years. </i><br /><br />A valid point, PW. I think this is more of a phenomenon in areas that are heavily Protestant and "Bible Belt", in the proper context. <br /><br />In my area of NE Ohio there's even a lot of pressure from a huge local Southern Baptist church (which intentionally downplays that denominational affiliation). This church has drawn away quite a large number of Catholics who never learned their faith well to begin with so the local RC parishes have mistakenly assumed that they need to adapt to a more "praise" culture to keep their parishioners.<br /><br />I will always be grateful for the solid catechesis I received as a Lutheran kid. It came in handy years later to help me sort a lot of things out that needed sorting.<br /><br />ChristineAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-3615018239545507612009-08-18T15:36:54.516-05:002009-08-18T15:36:54.516-05:00Dixie,
Sad to hear that there are no parishes in ...Dixie,<br /><br />Sad to hear that there are no parishes in the area that offer the Lutheran liturgy. I don't get the thinking behind that; I honestly don't. <br /><br />Christine,<br /><br />What always gets me is the assumption that something some person wrote for a special worship service used today and gone tomorrow is somehow more, what?, engaging? than the prayers we've prayed together for hundreds of years. <br /><br />All,<br /><br />Chemnitz was by no means arguing from the early church practice to every parish doing what seems right in its own eyes. He was simply arguing that the Church has never regarded itself as bound to recitation of a particular text of the anaphora as being of the very essence of the holy Sacrament.William Weedonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01383850332591975790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-79847905476835482212009-08-18T15:26:34.817-05:002009-08-18T15:26:34.817-05:00ICK! You're right. I wouldn't. Your husban...<i>ICK! You're right. I wouldn't. Your husband goes there and likes it???</i><br /><br />Above all things my husband is Lutheran. We live in a state where not one single congregation showed up on that approved liturgical congregation list (no surprises, happy family) that was going around a while back. My husband goes to the only Lutheran church in town and the only one within a 45 minute radius. Now I wish he hated it enough to say "no more"...maybe then he would come to Church with me. But he participates in the local Lutheran congregation God has given him--Creative Worship and all. I admire him a lot for that...and I am equally grateful that I don't have to go!Dixiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08511317203353075644noreply@blogger.com