tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post4719705955969038994..comments2024-03-24T05:54:23.612-05:00Comments on Weedon's Blog: An Interesting PropositionWilliam Weedonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01383850332591975790noreply@blogger.comBlogger56125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-1215836693142284952012-08-07T07:34:30.491-05:002012-08-07T07:34:30.491-05:00Pastor Weedon and Dixie,
I think what I wrote in ...Pastor Weedon and Dixie,<br /><br />I think what I wrote in my blog posts specifically was to say by way of detailed explanation what Dixie is saying: <br /><br />"the whole notion of intentionally being oblivious to the changes Christ works in us for fear of taking credit for those things seems very obsessive to me"<br /><br />So Dixie, thank you for saying that. : ) <br /><br />As regards sanctification in general, I am glad to see Pastor Cwirla say that there is growth in sanctification, but again, there is an obsession on "divine monergism" (um, when did we all start using this term - isn't it pretty new?).<br /><br />How about this?:<br /><br />We really do grow in faith, and hence inchoate righteousness (sanctification). We, insofar as we are new men, eagerly cooperate with God’s Holy Spirit, and like Adam in the garden, grow not only in faith, but in essential righteousness (much of this has to do with New Adam re-drowning Old Adam each day, threatening him with the Law, subduing him, etc.) Original Adam’s innocence was that of a child, but the innocence of the risen in heaven will be that of a man (AE 1:110-111) Likewise, our new man has the innocence of a child (capable of falling), but the innocence of the risen in heaven will be that of a man (where our nature will be that such that we will not fall).<br /><br />So, there is increase in righteousness now, even as before God, we are only justified by Christ's blood and righteousness. Again, we may not be able to detect this, but Scripturally, we know we grow in grace and that we should be eager for persons to see our progress, as Paul says. <br /><br />I got those ideas from a wise Lutheran pastor whom I respect. They seem right to me - in line with the Scriptures, the Fathers, and the Confessions<br /><br />+NathanNathan Rinnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13994922104672096902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-8833962110919170802012-08-07T07:23:14.452-05:002012-08-07T07:23:14.452-05:00Dixie,
I think that is right on.
Pastor Weedon...Dixie,<br /><br />I think that is right on. <br /><br />Pastor Weedon,<br /><br />I'm sorry if I may have confused things a bit here. I'd like to think the Confessions are clear (they seem so to me), but evidently, since people don't seem to agree, more clarification might be needed. <br /><br />+NathanNathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18235437889789484774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-25822471378662976742012-08-06T19:53:16.783-05:002012-08-06T19:53:16.783-05:00Dixie,
Excellen analogy about the attic. It stri...Dixie,<br /><br />Excellen analogy about the attic. It strikes me as an area that doesn't NEED to be confusing and is not at all confusing in the Confessions and Luther, Chemnitz, Gerhard, and Walther. It's an area that becomes confused, I think, when that fear of the old Adam seizing credit becomes, as you note, obsessive.William Weedonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01383850332591975790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-12369410519146133362012-08-06T19:10:14.767-05:002012-08-06T19:10:14.767-05:00I have to admit when I was Lutheran I never quite ...I have to admit when I was Lutheran I never quite understood what the true, fully Lutheran position on Sanctification really was. In fact, I was once soundly chastised by one of your buddies, Pastor Weedon, for not "getting it". However...after reading all the comments here, I think I might have figured out why I never quite understood! There doesn't seem to be a very unified understanding and it all seems very complicated.<br /><br />I hope you won't mind me being frank but the whole notion of intentionally being oblivious to the changes Christ works in us for fear of taking credit for those things seems very obsessive to me. Christ can and does work change in us, sanctifies us. And it is OK to recognize that work. Because progress in one area ultimately leads to the revelation of missing the mark in another...the more "Light" you add in a dirty attic, the more dirt you see. That is the reality of sanctification. All that other stuff regarding taking credit seems so weird because that is not the outcome of sanctification at all!<br /><br />Oh and you can be sure if I am ever in the neighborhood, I'll try to stop by and say "hey"!Dixiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08511317203353075644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-13686688619843649372012-08-06T11:00:58.320-05:002012-08-06T11:00:58.320-05:00...
Again, Jesus did come for sinners – and that ......<br /><br />Again, Jesus did come for sinners – and that means all of us all the time. If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. Since John says so we all clearly qualify here. If we need more evidence, we should ask why all believers in Christ physically die, when in the Garden death is only ever said to be a consequence for sin. <br /><br />All of this is not to promote worry in us, but awareness – of all we have been given in Christ amidst our enemies of the flesh, the world, and the devil. <br /><br />I don’t know about you, but I think I have a long way to go. But spurred on by the fact that my salvation is secure in my Lord Jesus by grace through faith, how can I not be eager to “catch up to myself in Christ”?<br /><br />*Kolb and Arand, “The Genius of Luther’s Theology”, 126 – note that their view is different than the one expounded on here.<br /><br />Need to run now - will check back in later to see if I've started or ended a conversation...hoping for the first.Nathan Rinnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13994922104672096902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-43840148898521194802012-08-06T11:00:12.272-05:002012-08-06T11:00:12.272-05:00Here is part II, to be posted tomorrow:
Of course...Here is part II, to be posted tomorrow:<br /><br />Of course, all of this sanctification talk makes some persons nervous – especially today. Does this not show a lack of humility? Now I am not saying that we should go around say that one person may be 99.9% saint while another is only 63% % or even 6.3%. That way of speaking is a bit ridiculous, akin to taking the pros and cons list and blowing it up to all-encompassing proportions. Quantitative evaluations, those measuring specific things numerically, are not the best thing here (still, note Luther in the Large Catechism’s explanation of the third part of the Apostle’s Creed: “for now, we are only half pure and holy”), in spite of all that follows. Let me be clear: before God, in column A, we are always 100% saints and 100% sinners. <br /><br />Having said this now, even if we were to speak in a quantitative way in regards to our sanctification as a whole, would this necessarily be wrong? After all, we can’t deny that we will all be “measured” in some way, though as I have argued, more of a qualitative measurement is in mind (see II Cor. 5:10). Think about this: none of us will make it to 100% saint before we die. If we are at .1% sinner we will still need the blood and righteousness of Christ just as much as the next person, for whoever breaks one part of the Law breaks the whole Law. Walther said that the Christian is the one who fears to commit even a single sin (“didn’t he also say something about not attributing beliefs and attitudes to the average Christian he does not have?”, we say today without much reflection…) Yes, even one particular sin is serious – even as we also acknowledge that our good thoughts, words, and deeds are tainted by the sinful infection that affects and clings to the godly desires the Spirit gives. Of course, God’s promise to provide a way out of temptation is only for sinner-saints. <br /><br />Further, these hypothetical 99.9% persons will always see their sin! They would not be the proud ones, but humble ones. And that .1% will seem all-encompassing to them, and given that God means for us to be perfectly loving like Him, it is right for that sin to bother them. They will, in all honesty, feel like they are, really and truly, the chief of sinners before God – and they will constantly be looking to Christ for forgiveness that they may be renewed. In addition, these persons are well aware that they could take a terrible fall, a la Chutes and Ladders, or even lose their faith altogether (i.e. justification) through faith-destroying and doubt-inducing sin. Finally, if a person is at 99.9%, you can rest assured they did not get to that point primarily because of fear of punishment and hope of reward, but because of the love of God from God that they allowed to shape them and flow through them. They certainly knew the passage about laying up treasure in heaven and not on earth – but the Treasure they were longing for more than anything was to know the love of God more – to simply dwell in His house and (not their own mansions). For He was always was their sanctification (I Cor. 1:30), by whom their faith and love grew (for without faith in Him, there is no beginning of sanctification, much less continued progress in the same). “Keeping track” of any good they did was never on their mind, although pleasing Him (not to be saved) certainly was. Maybe you would contend these persons don’t exist, but I’d say Scripture – not to say, some of our experiences – says otherwise. <br /><br />...Nathan Rinnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13994922104672096902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-12426906227523789722012-08-06T10:58:21.360-05:002012-08-06T10:58:21.360-05:00Here is the post:
Note: Due to the lack of expli...Here is the post: <br /><br />Note: Due to the lack of explicit “Gospel-in-the-narrow-sense” content – which I acknowledge should pervade our conversation (post is already quite long) – some [Lutheran] theologians reading this may want to supplement this post with a reading of Luther’s Large Catechism (the third part of the Apostle’s Creed)<br /><br />We think some people are better than others. Every kid knows it.<br /><br />We all do it. Can’t say we don’t. And there is nothing wrong with this, even as we also assert that all persons, without exception, are loved by God who desires the salvation of all. And, as many a parent of multiple children knows (and hopefully many a child), to say this is not to say that one is loved more than another. So our statement stands: we certainly do think some people are better than others. For example, women might prefer the company of the “bad boy” for a brief season, but the wiser of them, sensibly, end up thinking that when it comes to a long-term prospect, other qualities need to be sought in a man (these are the better women). Likewise, we will seek out certain persons for particular jobs – when we are having automotive difficulties, we look for a mechanic who knows what he is doing – we trust them regarding that area (perhaps we also think they would overcharge us on their own, but we trust their supervisor!). On the other hand, when it comes to choosing a roommate, for example, we generally will seek someone who we think is a better person overall according to our standards, which may be more or less in accordance with God’s. This is not done according to quantitative criteria – although a “pros” and “cons” list may be produced to aid in the decision – but qualitative criteria – we “measure” the whole person. Can’t say we don’t – and if we do, that is false humility.<br /><br />So it is with God.<br /><br />What? Yes. Not as it has to do with our justification of course. That must, as respected Lutheran teacher Dr. Rod Rosenbladt has said, remain in “column A. ” We cannot bring our love born of strong faith, our good works, our holiness, or our conformity to Christ’s image into that column. We cannot even bring our godly suffering and our “deep” repentance into that column. All of that belongs in column B, which pertains to our sanctification. When it comes to our standing before God – when it comes to the A or B categories of truly being His child or not – there are only these things we must look at: Christ, grace, and faith (which also is a gift He provides). And column A is to remain column A until we breathe our last.<br /><br />But sanctification? Different story.<br /><br />Now it is true that Jesus Himself dwells in our hearts by faith, and He is perfectly righteous before His Father in Heaven. And it is also true that those with faith are completely new creatures in Christ – with “new desires, attitudes, and dispositions to align [our lives] with God’s design”* – albeit ones that are immature. Still, when it comes to justification, even these things are all column B stuff (see Hebrews 10:14), for God justifies the wicked when they look to him in desperate, groping, and loveless trust – via the alien, or external righteousness of Jesus Christ given in His Word! Regarding our being new creatures, it is therefore true that we have a new nature – even if we don’t feel it – who is not Jesus. In other words, it is we who are new men, not Jesus, and it is we who cooperate with Him – or not – in our sanctification. As such, God does judge some of us to be more in line with his designs, desires, thoughts, words, and deeds than others (even as each are conformed in distinctive ways) and rewards them as such. Of course they won’t care about the fact that they will certainly be in charge of many mansions in heaven (note: not on earth!) – but they will be nonetheless. And of course, those of us with only one mansion or so (I guess) will be nothing but happy for them by that point (I’m guessing there will be some great “commons” areas : ) ).Nathan Rinnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13994922104672096902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-63939560184056421462012-08-06T10:57:57.415-05:002012-08-06T10:57:57.415-05:00Pastors,
Let me just say, I understand Pastor Cwi...Pastors,<br /><br />Let me just say, I understand Pastor Cwirla's hesitancy to focus on our "inchoate righteousness". Of course we must be looking to Christ more and more. <br /><br />With that, then, I say this, which I know will probably drive lots of folks crazy: <br /><br />http://infanttheology.wordpress.com/2012/08/06/holiness-what-does-this-mean-the-christians-sanctification-as-measured-by-god-part-i/Nathan Rinnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13994922104672096902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-71740528848473596042012-08-06T09:24:09.583-05:002012-08-06T09:24:09.583-05:00Precisely.Precisely.William Weedonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01383850332591975790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-84929280351268079712012-08-06T09:15:06.668-05:002012-08-06T09:15:06.668-05:00"36] In the Large Catechism of Dr. Luther (th..."36] In the Large Catechism of Dr. Luther (the Third Article of the Christian Faith) it is written thus: And I am also a part and member of the same, a sharer and joint owner of all the goods it possesses, brought to it and incorporated into it by the Holy Ghost, by having heard and continuing to hear the Word of God, which is the beginning of entering it. 37] For formerly, before we had attained to this, we were altogether of the devil, knowing nothing of God and of Christ. Thus, until the last day, the Holy Ghost abides with the holy congregation or Christendom, by means of which He brings us to Christ, and which He employs to teach and preach to us the Word, whereby He works and promotes sanctification, causing [this community] daily to grow and become strong in the faith and the fruits of the Spirit, which He produces. 38] In these words the Catechism does not mention our free will or cooperation with a single word, but ascribes everything to the Holy Ghost, namely, that through the office of the ministry He brings us into the Christian Church, wherein He sanctifies us, and brings it about that we daily grow in faith and good works.<br /><br />39] And although the regenerate even in this life advance so far that they will what is good, and love it, and even do good and grow in it, nevertheless this (as above stated) is not of our will and ability, but the Holy Ghost, as Paul himself speaks concerning this, works such willing and doing, Phil. 2:13. As also in Eph. 2:10 he ascribes this work to God alone, when he says: For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk therein."WM Cwirlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12317197804776939257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-55499969391040050112012-08-06T09:13:23.533-05:002012-08-06T09:13:23.533-05:00"42] These testimonies state that by our own ..."42] These testimonies state that by our own powers we cannot come to Christ, but God must give us His Holy Ghost, by whom we are enlightened, sanctified, and thus brought to Christ through faith, and kept with Him; and no mention is made either of our will or cooperation."WM Cwirlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12317197804776939257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-29688733808257498712012-08-05T14:03:17.872-05:002012-08-05T14:03:17.872-05:00Yet the Formula does speak of our cooperation and ...Yet the Formula does speak of our cooperation and in rather sweeping terms when it comes to sanctification; yet it does so soldily within the talk of the Spirit for only by the Holy Spirit can the new man cooperate in all the works of the Spirit. We need to beware of not being able to use the language of our Symbols as natively our own. I have zero problem talking about cooperation, but wish to do so within the limits that the Formula sets, and that runs right with St. Paul's: Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works within you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.William Weedonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01383850332591975790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-22698008276754827922012-08-05T14:00:43.564-05:002012-08-05T14:00:43.564-05:00So long as the focus is on Christ and the work of ...So long as the focus is on Christ and the work of the Holy Spirit, there is no problem with "growth" in holiness or sanctification. The problems begin when the focus turns to us: our cooperation, our working together with God, our good works, love, etc.WM Cwirlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12317197804776939257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-40004589495059904822012-08-05T10:57:32.826-05:002012-08-05T10:57:32.826-05:00Bill,
The point of contention isn't that I mu...Bill,<br /><br />The point of contention isn't that I must decrease, but that Christ INCREASES. That we come to live more and more from His life which is communicated to us via the means of grace. The "decrease of me" I take to mean the life of repentance; the "increase of Christ" I take to mean the life of faith.<br /><br />I think Chemnitz addressed this very well in Examen:<br /><br />God does not confer and convey grace in this life just once, so that it is at once complete and perfect, so that as long as we are in this life God would will and convey nothing more, and that a person would need to receive nothing more from God; but God is always giving and man is always receiving, in order that we may be joined more and more fully and perfectly to Christ, and may hold the forgiveness of sins or reconciliation more firmly, so that the benefits of redemption, which have been begun in us, may be preserved and strengthened and may grow and increase. - Examen II:76,77.William Weedonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01383850332591975790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-45334133701409875922012-08-05T09:54:33.568-05:002012-08-05T09:54:33.568-05:00If Christ must increase and I must decrease, then ...If Christ must increase and I must decrease, then my "growth" is my decrease (mortification). I think we should speak of the baptismal life as one of repentance (metanoia, re-cognition) rather than "sanctification."WM Cwirlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12317197804776939257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-83721344404105793742012-08-05T00:21:09.793-05:002012-08-05T00:21:09.793-05:00Koeberle must be read critically in light of Scrip...Koeberle must be read critically in light of Scripture and Confessions, of course. I have read him a long time ago and found him troubling. I'll have to revisit him.WM Cwirlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12317197804776939257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-70403724521366965712012-08-04T21:50:56.022-05:002012-08-04T21:50:56.022-05:00Bill,
Amen!
This whole discussion makes me wonde...Bill,<br /><br />Amen!<br /><br />This whole discussion makes me wonder if you all have read Koeberle and if you agree with his presentation of both justification and sanctification?William Weedonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01383850332591975790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-79673407754023695692012-08-04T21:40:40.354-05:002012-08-04T21:40:40.354-05:00"He must increase; I must decrease.""He must increase; I must decrease."WM Cwirlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12317197804776939257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-18798175531523490232012-08-04T20:39:20.696-05:002012-08-04T20:39:20.696-05:00More to the point, I think looking at Sanctificati...More to the point, I think looking at Sanctification in terms of growth or progress instead of primarily simply as gift which we receive and live in can set the stage where we become too judgmental. We see people act, a little slice of their life, and suddenly instead of just letting that action stand or fall, we compare it to the past. I see someone be less patient than normal -- do I think they are slipping, or do I think, "I wonder if they are more stressed than usual - can I help them with something"? <br /><br />Progress isn't a helpful way of judging one's self (especially as we can easily slip into self-justification in one area to "cover" a weaker area - the old Adam delights in this) -- besides, even after the warnings of 1 Cor 3 we hear in 1 Cor 4:3-4 "But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by any human court. **In fact, I do not even judge myself.** For I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby acquitted. It is the Lord who judges me." Indeed, even in Chapter 3, rather than saying that I have grown in wisdom, let me be a fool instead that I may be wise - and instead of people pointing to my works, or Weedon's works, or anyone else's works, let us all point to Christ.Rev. Eric J Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17747919365522145094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-52659850396434478862012-08-04T20:26:53.184-05:002012-08-04T20:26:53.184-05:00Praying for an increase in holiness is indeed a go...Praying for an increase in holiness is indeed a good thing! However, if the discussion shifts subjects, where the one who is increasing holiness shifts from God and becomes me, then there is horrible bad and blasphemous theology.<br /><br />This is why I do not like the term "progress" -- it lends itself too quickly to twisting sanctification from a gift of God and a working of the Spirit through Word and Sacrament into a catalog of my improving efforts -- it shifts the subject. <br /><br />Now, this is not always gross and terrible, but look at the move of your initial post -- first we are passive, and then suddenly we are the active ones who keep the law and grow. Sanctification is not couched in terms of God being active in and through us, but rather suddenly an enabler. Then in the comments it's onto free will in the comments, and progress and rewards we earn... and the Spirit is just a dative of means passed by a few posts earlier.<br /><br />I would rather say that when we have been justified by faith, we are made to keep the Law by the Spirit. And God grant that He increase my holiness... but I'm not going to focus on or compare strength of my holiness, anymore than I would want to go off on how my faith is stronger or some such thing. That isn't to be my focus.<br /><br />So I don't think anyone is saying that we should strive to be wicked, that we should sin that grace may abound -- but rather, let us be focused on Christ rather than trying to determine how pious our navel is by gazing at it.Rev. Eric J Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17747919365522145094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-31076567487992715632012-08-04T19:28:09.958-05:002012-08-04T19:28:09.958-05:00Where I attended Divine Service tonight, this pray...Where I attended Divine Service tonight, this prayer was printed in the bulletin. It came from David Hollaz:<br /><br />Almighty Lord Jesus Christ, as often as I shall come to Your holy table to refresh my spirit, I pray You to make me, unworthy as I am, worthy through Your grace, impure as I am, to make me clean, naked as I am, to clothe me, so that Your Body, so full of divine power, and Your most precious Blood, may not become for me, Your servant, the occasion for judgment or punishment, but a memorial of the death You underwent for me, a strengthening of my faith, a proof of the taking away of my sin, a bond of closer union with You and Your people, *an increase of holiness*, the basis of a glad resurrection and a pledge of everlasting life. Amen. <br /><br />Note that this beautiful pre-communion prayer asks for the increase in holiness not as a result of moral effort or any such, but as a result of the faithful reception of the Savior's body and blood.William Weedonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01383850332591975790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-26608476849736102262012-08-04T17:42:44.383-05:002012-08-04T17:42:44.383-05:00Sorry for misspelling your name!Sorry for misspelling your name!William Weedonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01383850332591975790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-64821612286391217342012-08-04T17:41:53.057-05:002012-08-04T17:41:53.057-05:00Donovan,
It's just the teaching of the Script...Donovan,<br /><br />It's just the teaching of the Scriptures. We have to deal with that. We may not write it out of them. Rewards have a place in our teaching for the Spirit (sic!) writes of them. Pieper's treatment of them is quite sound. <br /><br />The topic was growth in sanctification and that's why, well, that's the topic. In the linked article in my earlier comment I do not believe that any of the ways your have characterized this thread could be substantiated.<br /><br />On being=good, I'm not sure what other alternative there is. "And it was good." The Formula makes it clear that human nature itself falls under this "good" as far as its own essence is concerned as a creature of God. What's not at all good is the corruption which is so pervasive, so deep, so all encompassing that God alone could salvage the nature while destroying its corruption - which is what He does in Baptism and through the life of penitence and faith until Baptism reaches its fulfillment in death and resurrection.William Weedonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01383850332591975790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-37907484838020712582012-08-04T17:36:58.421-05:002012-08-04T17:36:58.421-05:00Theosis is the deadliest of errors???Theosis is the deadliest of errors???William Weedonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01383850332591975790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7291232.post-92213734506346415212012-08-04T17:31:06.623-05:002012-08-04T17:31:06.623-05:00The old Adam does love his rewards...
I read very...The old Adam does love his rewards...<br /><br />I read very little on this thread of the Holy Spirit and his work, but there's no shortage of talk about "us" and what "we" do...<br /><br />It's the Holy Spirit who began the good work in me and carries it through to completion (Phil 1:6), shields me through faith until the coming of salvation (1 Peter 1:5), and is constantly at work in me (1 Thess. 2:13) ...<br /><br />More talk of Christ our righteousness and sanctification, baptism into Christ, and the work of the Holy Spirit, and less about "rewards," then we can stop hand wringing about words like "progress" and the old Adam will be put in his proper place, being drowned and put to death and raised up to new life through faith in God and fervent love toward his neighbor.Donavon Rileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15275187658364471564noreply@blogger.com