I was chatting with a friend today. He thinks I'm obsessed with the Blessed Virgin. Fancy that. Actually, I was telling him that what is striking is how often and simply the great fathers of the 16th and 17th centuries speak of the Mother of God's perpetual virginity or the closed womb birth and such from the pulpit and in their other writings. To them it was just taken for granted.
Why was it taken for granted then, but not taken for granted now?
I don't know the answer for certain, but I have a hunch about what happened. It's this: the Churches of the Augsburg Confession retained Latin. That means that they didn't bother to translate the old Latin office hymns. They wrote new hymns in German, of course, but they just kept on singing the old hymns in Latin right alongside the new ones (though the Sequences, unlike the office hymns, were subject to frequent "correcta" - always with copious Scriptural annotations). And those hymns simply shaped their theological endeavor.
In the Magdeburg Book the hymn "Creator of the Stars of Night" is listed as being sung at Vespers throughout Adventtide. It is sung in Latin, of course, and - as throughout the book - Scriptural allusions are provided in the margins. So when in the third stanza they sang of the Lord proceeding from the "closed" Mother, the margin listed the reference to Ezekiel 44:2. They sang it every night at Vespers in Magdeburg during Advent! They grew up shaped by that. Where did Gerhard learn the allusion of Mary's virginity being typified in the burning bush, in Gideon's fleece, in Aaron's rod that budded? It was all in the hymnody! The LATIN hymnody. The hymnody they didn't translate and just kept using. UNTIL.
Until rationalism and pietism swept through the Lutheran Churches, and then Latin was the first thing axed. And suddenly all the hymns that had nurtured and sustained a way of reading and thinking about the Scriptures were no longer there. Only the post-Reformation hymns that had been composed in German largely remained. And it wasn't too long after this that we see a marked change in how the Scriptures themselves were being read and understood.
As I said, this is all Weedon's suppositions - I have yet to do all the "hard data work" as dear Dr. Nagel would call it - but I truly suspect it explains a LOT of what happened. Take up your old German Gesangbuch and look for the hymns that we regard as standard from the Latin. They're not there. It's a loss I think we've still not reckoned with, and it explains why Lutherans of the 21st century simply don't know how to DEAL with what their forebears in the faith simply took as axiomatic.
Maybe your friend was right?
ReplyDeleteWell, I DO believe miracles still happen... ;)
ReplyDeleteI went to Fenton's new church today. I looked for you on IM but you're not logged in. I ducked out before anybody talked to me and I didn't accept any of their bread. I was supposed to reject it, right?
ReplyDeleteBill,
ReplyDeleteGood post. I think with the disappearance of the hymns, the sad darkness of the Reformed and general Protestantism seeped in to fill their place. Now with the Liturgy itself with all good hymns being chucked in many of our parishes, just imagine the chaos that looms ahead for us in the future. I'm afraid that the loss of the Semper Virgo and the Closed Womb delivery of Jesus will seem like small potatoes compared to what's coming our way in 50-100 years.
BTW, your new ID image is nice, but it's big. Now, maybe it's because I can only get a 26K connection at best, but it sure does take a while to download. I'm sure it's because my connection speed is so poor out here. It still looks nice, though.
Dear Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteThe only reason you would need to refuse their bread is if you wish to refuse their love and friendship. That's the point behind their baking it by hand, blessing it, and giving it to those with whom they cannot admit to the Sacrament.
Thinking of my own parish situation, it sure would be confusing and disheartening if a new face showed up, but darted out so no one could say "Welcome" or "Hi, and you are?"
Why did you visit their parish? Did you intend to behave this way from the get-go? I wouldn't be pleased to find out one of my parishioners did something like this in one of the other churches in town.
But maybe this all sounds worse than it really is? Perhaps I just have the wrong idea here.
What is going on here?
In Christ,
Rev. Benjamin Harju, Pastor
St. John's LCMS, Hastings, IA
St. Paul LCMS, Oakland, IA
The bread they were offering me was the same bread they were receiving in communion. Wouldn't accepting it be like communing at the alter of a non-Lutheran church? I didn't go with plans to refuse the bread. I didn't know they were going to do it until I read it in the ordo. As for darting out right at the end, I did plan that as my current pastor actually recommended that I don't visit at all because he thought J.F. would corner me and try to convert me on the spot. J.F. headed downstairs and I bolted for my car.
ReplyDeleteDear Jenn,
ReplyDeletePastor Harju is quite right about the bread - though it LOOKS like the Eucharistic bread, it is called "antidoran" - "instead of the gift" - and is offered merely as a gesture of friendship.
I don't think Fr. John would have tried to convert you on the spot, though he would certainly love to have you as an Orthodox Christian because of his conviction that Orthodoxy is the one true Church.
What did you think of the liturgy? It's remarkably similar, I suspect, to Zion's liturgy. The Divine Service of the Lutheran Church and the Liturgy of the Gregorian Rite of the Western Orthodox have a true kinship. And certainly Fr. John is a powerful preacher of the Gospel. Still where we differ, we differ, and no similarity in liturgy can gloss over the difference.
Pr. Harju,
ReplyDeleteYou may of course be correct, but we also see in LSB the Lutheran faith expressed beautifully in numerous new hymns written in modern English. That gives reason to hope as well. Time will tell. It's a battle of passing on vs. erosion.
Doh! It's not the same bread? *facepalm* Oh well. At least now I know.
ReplyDeleteYes, it's remarkably similar in liturgy. It felt a little informal but I think that's because I'm used to organ music and a grand-looking building with great acoustics. The hynms were all about martyrs and Mary. It seemed somewhat lacking in gospel by comparison. Also, there was unfamiliar terms used here and there so I didn't feel as though I could give any Amens. I merely observed for the most part.
Interesting,
ReplyDeleteThe disuse of Latin - in hymns or otherwise - must be why a Roman Catholic friend of mine(who's a convert from the Baptists) thought it strange that when I was examing Lutheranism I started delving into Latin. The two seemed mutually exclusive to him and Lutheranism had, in his mind, become synonymous with hostility toward Latin... sigh
If the early Lutherans wrote new hymns in the vernbacular without translating the old Latin hymns, they must have had a high regard for teaching Latin.
very, very interesting
Fr.Weedon,
How would the rise of Rationalism and Pietism in Lutheransim cause Latin to be regarded as less favorable? Was it Latin itself or more importantly theological points evident in these writings that were a thorn in the side of these streams?
Pax
Omar,
ReplyDeleteThe rationalists and pietists both disliked the Latin itself. They thought of it as being stuck to far into the Romanism that Lutheranism ought to have extracted itself from. The Lutherans thought entirely differently: the Latin was just the language that they'd grow up with and they treasured it and used it regularly.
TOO far. Grr!
ReplyDeletePastor Weedon:
ReplyDeleteI too am accused of having a Marian obsession. The phrase "Icon of the Church" is stuck in my mind.
One can have a healthy obsession with the Blessed Virgin though, and I am sure you have such a healthy interest as all I have read from you or heard from you on IE never goes against the fact that Christ is absolutely central.
Anonymous:
You have nothing to fear from Fr. Fenton. Talk to him if you get the chance. He has no supernatural powers to convert high church confessional Lutherans :)
You hit the nail on the head by writing about the lack of gospel.
He needs to hear this. If you get the chance, tell him. The typical old school cn type Lutheran crowd would call me a hyper-euro and sacerdotalist and despite my absolute respect for the OHM, the Gospel, the Truth, spoken by a layperson is just as powerful as what is spoken by the ordained. If you know the Truth, speak it! Fr. Fenton or not.
I have a dream in which Fr. Fenton comes home to Wittenberg, where he belongs, where we need him as well.
Dear William,
ReplyDeleteHave you have read Charles R Hogg Jr's articles on this theme in Lutherna Forum?
Fraser
Thanks, Jon.
ReplyDeleteFraser,
Yes, I am very well acquainted with them. I'm not sure - as this post indicated - that the whole of the blame should be laid at Gerhard's door, however. I think it was the loss of the liturgical context they inherited and for so long retained which would transform how they heard the Scriptural witness.
Unknown Lutheran - I emailed you a couple of days ago. Go look!
ReplyDeleteI'm not exactly a Confessional Lutheran, yet. I'm still trying to find somebody to give me an in-depth catechism. I have much to learn. I've only been a liturgy snob for about 10 weeks. ;) I haven't even memorized the Nicene creed yet. *blush*
Only the post-Reformation hymns that had been composed in German largely remained. And it wasn't too long after this that we see a marked change in how the Scriptures themselves were being read and understood.
ReplyDeleteI suspect you are on to something there, Pastor Weedon. It goes a long way in explaining my Prussian Lutheran mother's piety which found the idea of Mary as "semper virgo" foreign and unLutheran.
Pr Weedon,
ReplyDeleteI came across a book on the progression of the Lutheran view of Mary called "Reforming Mary" by Beth Kreitzer. The author takes a different approach, but arrives at a similar conclusion to yours. She followed the sermons of Lutheran pastors and found drastically different homiletical views of Mary over the centuries of Lutheranism. She compared those presentations of Mary to the role of women during those time periods and concluded that teachings about Mary were largely derived as a device to promote the ethical and social concepts of particular eras in time.
The bottom line is that she found Mary to be a complex figure in Lutheranism that was largely molded by the preaching and practice of the saints of a given period. Based on that, I would say that the reason modern American Christians do not readily accept the semper virgo is because they rarely accept any teaching of the church. As specific doctrines become increasingly subjective in the modern mind, this minor issue will become increasingly obscure. The age of Higher Criticism that casts serious doubts on the virgin birth as a whole makes no room for perpetual virginity by default.
This adds to your point about the influence of pietism and rationalism to the beliefs of Lutheranism. I would add to that the influence of radical protestantism in general (especially here in America). It would make sense that the same influences that brought revivalism and a low view of Roman practices would also work against the preservation of this particular teaching.
FWIW, I am on the fence about the semper virgo. I find the topic to be highly speculative.
Pr Gehlbach,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the vote of confidence concerning my lack of magical, magisterial, supernatural or coercive powers. :)
It may interest you to know that for the sermon last evening (as directed, we celebrated the Feast of the Holy Innocent Martyrs) I read (word for word) portions of two sermons by St Peter Chrysologus (FOC, 110.261-263; 258-260). Regrettably, an electronic version does not exist. If I have time, I may type in a good portion of this text on my blog.
It may also interest you to know that the hymns were these: "We Praise Thee, Lord" [R. Herber], "The Hymn for Conquering Martyrs Raise" [St Bede], "Virgin-born, We Bow Before Thee" [R. Heber; about Christ, the virgin-born, more than Mary], and the German favorite "Behold, a Branch is Growing".
Anonymous,
It was good to see you. Despite what you may have heard or read, please know that I have no desire whatsoever to force someone to become Orthodox--just as any good Lutheran pastor has no desire to force someone to become Lutheran. May the Lord bless you.
Oops. I falsely ascribed "Unknown" to Pr Gehlbach who is actually "Enigma."
ReplyDeleteSorry "Unknown"--and Pr Gehlbach.
Mike,
ReplyDeleteI've heard of that book before and always wanted to check it out. I think I really need to! Thanks.
The gospel preached on this day by St Peter Chrysologus is summarized here.
ReplyDeletePr Weedon,
ReplyDeleteYou can have my copy. Email me your address.
When I first read the BOC I was in Adult Information Class in WELS. When I read the description of liturgical practice and belief, I could close my eyes seeing what this would look like, having been RC pre council, if these guys rather than the Vatican II People's Police had shown up and "changed everthing". The result -- aomething very much like I was to find on Pastor Fenton's Detroit parish site, and very mildly like what I saw from Christian Worship on Sunday.
ReplyDeleteAt the time, I guess I thought WELS had aways been as it is now. So I asked the pastor. That began my introduction to Pietism -- which continues to this day and seems to be that barrier between Lutherans as Protestants and Lutherans as BOC confessing types.
And what is the adaptation of CCM, Willow Creek et al. but a latter day Pietism?
The Enigma and his wife would both agree with "Unknown Lutheran" that there is nothing to be feared from Fr Fenton, and that it is perfectly okay to talk to him. I certainly know that, while he is passionate about what he believes (as passionate as I am about what I believe) he will not try to force anyone to believe what he believes.
ReplyDelete(In fact, John, I remember a conversation we had about a letter I wrote to an Arminian when you still lived here, and your biggest complaint was that you said I made it sound like God was "forcing Himself" on the Christian. So you are definitely not one who would push or force instead of try to woo.)
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteWhat was your point in going then. Pastor Harju hit the nail on the head with this.
What a shame. Dont speak to these people of whom you walked into their home of worship and avoid the Pastor and reject their kindness...is this what is considered proper to Christians today?
Kenny
Kenny,
ReplyDeleteHer point in going was she wanted to see for herself what the great hubbub on the blogs was all about. She went out of curiosity and that's not a bad thing at all. Look at how Fr. John replied to her above and take that as the correct approach. Never forget that man's anger does not bring about the righteousness of God.
Kenny,
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with Pr. Weedon (BTW, Bill, that's one of my favorite verses!). My response to Jenn (aka Anonymous) was intended to be more quizzical in tone than angry. Humility is a two-way street: the moment we require it of others is the moment we forsake it ourselves.
Jenn and Pr. Weedon,
Thanks for the clarification.
Jenn, as you inquire into Lutheranism may the Lord bless you and lead you into all Truth. The Christian Faith is a liturgical organism, living by faith in the righteousness and incorruptible Life of Jesus Christ. I'm sure with friends such as Pr. Weedon you will find the resources you are looking for.
One thing my experience in Confessional Lutheranism has taught me these past 10 years is that the liturgical life is best savored and not wolfed down. IOW, the process is sometimes slow, but very rich indeed. Jesus be with you.
Rev. Benjamin Harju, Pastor
St. John's, Hastings, IA
St. Paul, Oakland, IA