Today our Synod remembers and thanks God for the three great Cappadocian fathers, Basil the Great, Gregory of Nazianzus and Gregory of Nyssa, Pastors and Confessors.From the web site:
Basil and the two Gregorys, collectively known as the Cappadocian Fathers, were leaders of Christian orthodoxy in Asia Minor (modern Turkey) in the later fourth century. Basil and Gregory of Nyssa were brothers; Gregory of Nazianzus was their friend. All three were influential in shaping the theology ratified by the Council of Constantinople of 381, which is expressed in the Nicene Creed. Their defense of the doctrines of the Holy Spirit and Holy Trinity, together with their contributions to the liturgy of the Eastern Church, make them among the most influential Christian teachers and theologians of their time.
From the Brotherhood Prayer Book:
Today we remember Saints Basil the Great, Gregory of Nazianzus and Gregory of Nyssa, Bishops and Doctors of the Church.
Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the Word of God; Whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.
O God, who hast endowed Thy servants Basil, Gregory and Gregory with clarity of faith and holiness of life; Grant us to keep with steadfast minds the faith which they taught, and in their fellowship to be made partakers of eternal glory; through Jesus Christ, Thy Son, our Lord, who liveth and reigneth with Thee and the Holy Ghost, ever one God, world without end. Amen.
A few choice quotes from these great fathers:
"When the Lord taught us the doctrine of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, He did not make arithmetic a part of this gift!" St. Basil the Great, On the Holy Spirit, par. 44
"Even choosing what is right is a gift of God's mercy." St. Gregory Nazianzus, Orations 37:13
"Let the inspired Scriptures then be our umpire, and the vote of truth will be given to those whose dogmas are found to agree with the Divine words." St. Gregory of Nyssa: On the Holy Trinity, NPNF, p. 327.
Ah Pastor Weedon, you have touched on the three holy hierarchs who are very dear to my heart.
ReplyDeleteHow gloriously the light of Christ shines in their witness!
Great men, all of them. I really should have given my favorite citation from Nazianzus, but I don't have a reference for it:
ReplyDelete"I think this…that all assemblies of bishops should be eschewed; for I have seen a good result of no synod, but an increase rather than a solution of evils; for love of controversy and ambition overcometh reason (think not that I write maliciously)."
Ain't that beautiful? What utter truth!!!
Or this one from Epistle 124:
ReplyDeleteSynods and Conventions I salute from afar, since I have experienced that most of them (to speak moderately) are but sorry affairs.
It's good to know that the Holy Fathers were Lutheran!
ReplyDeleteNow, anon, that's silly. Better to say, it's good the holy Fathers witness so beautifully to the Holy Gospel.
ReplyDeleteAnd it is only the SYNODS that were Lutheran - at least apparently in motivations and behavior. The more things change...
ReplyDeleteAnd yet...if one of these Fathers was a member of your Parish, you would move for immediate excommunication, no?
ReplyDelete"When thou perceivest that God is chastening thee, fly not to His enemies . . . but to His friends, the martyrs, the saints, and those who were pleasing to Him, and who have great power." St. John Chrysostom
Truly an odd thought, Trent, that one would excommunicate a person with whom one disagreed. I'm sure if I excommunicated the members of my parish who disagreed with me on any point, I'd have a parish of what, one? Myself? The notion of the invocation would certainly be one that I'd discuss with the great Father and using the Rule espoused by St. Gregory of Nyssa, I'd ask for him to bring his contention to the Umpire of Sacred Scripture. Funny thing is, I think he wouldn't object to such a thing at all. Nor would he - at least from any of his writings that I've read - suggest that instead of demonstrating the truth from the Sacred Scriptures, I should accept what he said simply because he said it.
ReplyDeleteNo, I don't think St. John or the Cappadocians would object at all ...
ReplyDeleteand yet, (contending for the Catholic view, of course) I'm not sure that trying to find their views on the intercession of the saints in their writings on faith in Christ alone is very fruitful. They simply are not addressing hagiology there.
To wit, if one is going to inquire of one of the Fathers then one might inquire of many of them:
Gregory of Nazianzen
"May you [Cyprian] look down from above propitiously upon us, and guide our word and life; and shepherd this sacred flock . . . gladden the Holy Trinity, before which you stand" (Orations 17[24] [A.D. 380]).
"Yes, I am well assured that [my father’s] intercession is of more avail now than was his instruction in former days, since he is closer to God, now that he has shaken off his bodily fetters, and freed his mind from the clay that obscured it, and holds conversation naked with the nakedness of the prime and purest mind . . . "
John Chrysostom
"He that wears the purple [i.e., a royal man] . . . stands begging of the saints to be his patrons with God, and he that wears a diadem begs the tentmaker [Paul] and the fisherman [Peter] as patrons, even though they be dead" (Homilies on Second Corinthians 26 [A.D. 392]).
Jerome
"You say in your book that while we live we are able to pray for each other, but afterwards when we have died, the prayer of no person for another can be heard. . . . But if the apostles and martyrs while still in the body can pray for others, at a time when they ought still be solicitous about themselves, how much more will they do so after their crowns, victories, and triumphs?" (Against Vigilantius 6 [A.D. 406]).
Augustine
"Neither are the souls of the pious dead separated from the Church which even now is the kingdom of Christ. Otherwise there would be no remembrance of them at the altar of God in the communication of the Body of Christ" (The City of God 20:9:2 [A.D. 419]).
Our salvation is truly in Christ alone -- but that great cloud of heavenly witnesses in who cheer us on and pray for us on our pilgrim journey is included in the Communion of Saints to whom we all belong.
Which St. Therese and St. Teresa would also have believed.
Lutherans, Catholics and Orthodox will probably never come to agreement on this, but this in no way negates the baptismal bond that binds us.
Christine,
ReplyDeleteNo, I don't think we will come to agreement on this particular matter. Though do note that the Lutherans do not in any way deny that the saints in the Church triumphant still intercede for the Church on pilgrimage. I do wonder, though, if St. John or St. Basil could have seen where it finally led, if they'd have moved from speculation to practice the way they did on this particular matter. A friend of mine notes the peculiarity of it seeming at arise with the Imperial Church, being largely absent from the Church in earlier years.
Oh, and on the Augustine quote, remember that Blessed Martin Luther also taught:
ReplyDelete"For who can harm or injure a man who has this confidence, who knows that heaven and earth, and all the angels and saints will cry to God when the smallest suffering befalls him?" (Sermons on John XVI-XX, 1528)
For us Lutherans it is that the need to cry "ora pro nobis" has been replaced by the joyful "orat (or orant - did I get that right?) pro nobis."
On the eastern (new) calendar, only St. Gregory of Nyssa is commemorated today while his brother, St. Basil the Great, their friend St. Gregory the Theologian (not Nazianzus; that's his father) and St. John Chrysostom are all commemorated together on the Feast of the Great Hierarchs which is on Jan. 30. INdividually, St. Basil is commemorated on Jan. 1, St. Gregory the Theolgian on Jan. 19 and St. JOhn Chrysostom is commemorated on Nov. 13. Just FYI.
ReplyDeleteAll great saints and teachers of the Church.
A friend of mine notes the peculiarity of it seeming at arise with the Imperial Church, being largely absent from the Church in earlier years.
ReplyDeleteWell, until the persecutions ceased and the Church began to sort out the early heresies it's not surprising. There are inscriptions from the 2nd century in the Roman catacombs of Christians invoking St. Peter and Paul, the martyrs (and from one, even his parents!) that predate the Constantinian era.
With the tremendous scriptural knowledge that the early fathers had it would be very surprising to me if they found the doctrine of the saints to be anathema that they would not have soundly condemned it.
Nevertheless, veneration of the saints is always subordinate to the primacy of Christ. I see them as my heavenly family in Christ (as I do my earthly Christan brothers and sisters) and rejoice in their prayers for the church, but Christ alone is and always will be the one mediator.
Pastor Weedon,
ReplyDeleteSo, it has never seemed odd that Lutherans would keep on their calendar Saints who, based on their public confession, could not hold to the BOC and therefore not actually be a member of a Lutheran Church?
If not, then where has the Lutheran church drawn the line on disagreement...a little disagreement OK, but a lot not OK? No to Thomas Aquinas but yes to Anselm and Bernard of Clairvaux.
Well, Trent, let me get at it this way: the Orthodox calendar observes many more saints than the Lutheran calendar. For example, among them is St. Isaac the Syrian, a Nestorian. Do you agree with his Nestorianism? Obviously not. And yet you observe him as a saint. Why? I think you'll find the same answer would hold for Lutherans gladly observing the great Church fathers whom we regard as OUR fathers too - not infallible, but holy men (and women) through whom God blessed His Church in various ways. Shoot, we commemorate Luther, and no Lutheran agrees 100% with Luther!
ReplyDeleteOh, one more thought: in your Calendar you also commemorate those who taught as Church doctrine the Filioque: from St. Augustine to Leo to Gregory to many others. How much error CAN you tolerate and yet consider a Father your own? I'm not asking that to be snide, for I don't believe that's the spirit you asked it in, but simply to point out that ALL jurisdictions today observe and commemorate with thanksgiving also those with whom they find disagreement. The Lutheran Church rejoices to celebrate any and all who, in the words of the Apology, did not overthrow the foundation, sometimes building on it with gold, silver, and precious stones; sometimes with wood, hay and stubble.
ReplyDeleteAck. I should, of course, have written in the words of the Apology quoting St. Paul!
ReplyDeleteOoo, very interesting points, glad I found this dialogue!
ReplyDelete