Is to hear that there was no dissenting votes on the COP. I wonder how those DPs will face their pastors who spoke in various pastoral conferences either unanimously or overwhelmingly asking for the situation to be reversed? I think it leads to a whole new level of questioning: "Why?" And these same people marvel that trust is so broken among us? It's not that hard to figure out, folks. Not hard at all. And for that matter, WHERE does Scripture ever counsel us to "trust" other people? I'd like to see that passage. For good reason Scripture urges us to "trust not in princes (incuding the princes of the church)."
Pr. Weedon,
ReplyDeleteDoes that mean that the 3 Presidents of the Districts who passed resolutions about "Issues, Etc." did not dissent?
I don't know how else to read the statement if it's true - do you?
ReplyDeleteI am told that the only DP that didn't vote for it is the one who was absent.
ReplyDeleteWithout dissent simply means no one was bold enough to vote no. If it had been an unanimous vote, they would've trumpeted that fact far & wide.
ReplyDeleteThe Beast devours those who serve her.
ReplyDeleteCharlie, any hint as to who that dp was?
ReplyDeleterevgeorge,
ReplyDeleteAll who were present said "yes."
It is not called unanimous only because not all were present. That's what my DP tells me.
No, I wasn't told who it was. He was taking care of his wife, who was ill.
ReplyDeletePastor Weedon, do you remember at the last TAM conference this past fall a certain doctor of the church telling us about how dp's are basically initiated into the corporate structure of synod & sworn to serve the institution?
ReplyDeleteHow very apropos your quote then about the Beast.
Thanks, Charlie. That means my dp voted for it. How disappointing.
ReplyDeleteIt means my former pastor voted for it. Words can't express my sadness.
ReplyDeleteEverything has been done for ONE reason: to preserve the corporate image of Synod Inc.
ReplyDelete--NOT to conserve and promote the unity of the true faith
--NOT to provide a united defense against schism, sectarianism and heresy
but to preserve the the corporate image of Synod Inc.
This explains everything that has happened.
Yeah, well, count me among those who don't give a rat's posterior about the "corporate image" of the Synod - but one who does care rather about what is believed, confessed, and taught in her parishes.
ReplyDeleteI'm reminded of Marquart's story about the father bringing his son to church to witness an episcopal consecration. At the moment of the laying on of hands, the little boy asks: "What are they doing?" The father replies: "This is where they remove his spine."
ReplyDeleteSo much for the "confessional Lutherans" on the COP. I guess it doesn't take long to get sucked into the vortex.
Of well, maybe next synod.
A friend suggested to me today rather another part of one's anatomy...and not for the sake of the Kingdom!
ReplyDelete"A friend suggested to me today rather another part of one's anatomy...and not for the sake of the Kingdom!"
ReplyDeleteHmmm.
Sounds like a good new/bad news situation.
The good news is that the gatherings of the COP will include beautiful crystal clear soprano voices that sound like angels. The bad news is they won't be singing Bach or Palestrina but Amy Grant and Maranatha songs.
Follow the bouncing ball...
Naw... I think they will all hold hands and sing Kumbaya :)
ReplyDeleteMatt B.
revgeorge--You have got to be kidding about the DPs taking a secret oath to serve the institution! Please tell me you are kidding. I cannot tell you how deeply disturbing it is to think this is true. Please email me offline and tell me what you can (chris AT thelonghall DOT com).
ReplyDeleteThat does it for me. It's off to join a WELS church.
ReplyDeleteJust to clariy something I said earlier about dps & the corporate structure. I don't think dps are taking secret oaths to serve the institution. But I do think that they are made aware that they are not just elected officials but also official representatives of LCMS, Inc. And part of that is a duty to not do anything to undermine the institution or make it look bad or to open it up to litigation. Because they could end up being liable, too...
ReplyDeletecat,
ReplyDeleteGood luck in the WELS. But remember they have just as many problems as the LCMS.
Dear Sir Weedon,
ReplyDeleteI keep thinking, wondering, and wandering the blogs on this COP letter. Please update us with any further info as soon as you can. There is much speculation and if only 1 DP was missing then it looks like every layer of hierarchy has collapsed and the confessional pastors and congregations are left on their own? I am so sad and hoping the SID DP was missing. If he did not speak up then I am disappointed beyond what I can say.... :(
Thanks
Rev: George:
ReplyDeleteThat may be true but at least they will be using Lutheran materials instead of "The purpose driven life". I gotta get someone to help me with "Christian Dogmatics" by Mueller. That ain't gonna happen at an LCMS church.
At this point the LCMS has more problems than a squirrel on a 4 lane highway.
The Purpose Driven life is fairly common in WELS. So is contemporary worship.
ReplyDeleteThey also deny what the Scriptures teach on fellowship and the office of the Holy Ministry.
Dear Pr. Lehmann:
ReplyDeleteI am not gonna grow spiritual at my LCMS church. I don't have the rest of my life to wait for these people to return to Law and Gospel. As for the Holy Ministry it can't be any worse than where I am at.
Basically, with the touchy feely "Jesus is my boyfriend" music and the effeminate theology, the LCMS church is for girls.
I see the WELS pastor tomorrow. It's pretty much a done deal.
Pr. Lehmann said:
ReplyDelete"They also deny what the Scriptures teach on fellowship and the office of the Holy Ministry."
You mean they have deaconesses like we do?
No, I mean they deny that there even is an office of the Holy Ministry.
ReplyDeletePlease inform this poor papist what "COP" is.
ReplyDeleteThe full version of the "episcopal consecration" quip (which I think is Anglican in origin) runs as follows:
Q. Why are hands laid on a man's head at an episcopal consecration?
A. To remove his backbone and brains.
William Tighe
Never mind, I asked my question before scrolling down to read previous entries on the subject. Now I know.
ReplyDeleteWilliam Tighe
Dear Dr. Tighe,
ReplyDeleteThe COP stands for the Council of Presidents, the meeting of the full assembly of District Presidents with Synod's Presidium. An assembly that, curiously, has no constitutional authority in the LCMS that I've been able to discern, but which exercises authority nonetheless.
And the COP reminds me invariably of the words of St. Gregory of Nazianzus about "these Synods of Bishops...."
ReplyDeleteWELS attracts a fair number of LCMS refugees.
ReplyDeleteIt won't work. Part of it is what Pastor L indicated, and further, because of that factor, WELS is really just about a quarter-century or so behind other denominations (not just Lutheran ones) in having these problems. Plus you will not have the fellowship, albeit cyber, of the types, or at least the sympathetic ones, who congregate around this and other like-minded blogs.
Which is why I am a convert from WELS to LCMS, eyes wide open.
Or, as "someone" once put it, LCMS is the worst synod in the world, except for all the others.
ReplyDeleteSo we would ask people to join a church body that's the "best of the worst"? What does this tell us about the state of the Lutheran movement in America?
ReplyDeleteJim,
ReplyDeleteIt's not just the worst Lutheran church body except all the others.
It's the worse church body except all the others.
Ipse dixit!
ReplyDeleteGesundheit.
ReplyDeleteOr, as a pastor friend from NC used to say: "Well, you do and you clean it up." ;)
ReplyDeleteTell me I'd have had this much fun with a little quote from Cicero in WELS!
ReplyDeleteAn interesting phrase -- Cicero was actually quoting the Pythagoreans, whose various schools would justify theirs as the correct teaching by saying He (Pythagoras) said it himself. It has since gone on to refer to any argument justifying itself by the authority of the author rather than the logic of the argument.
My use here was no such thing. Since he indeed did just say it himself, I suppose there's no harm in saying the "someone" who said LCMS is the worst synod in the world except all the others was Pastor L himself, on his blog when he was a seminarian -- made sense to me and I converted from WELS to LCMS shortly thereafter.
On top of which, my dad also used to say "You do and you clean it up", and after speaking a little German -- which for him like me was a learned and not native language.
You won't get those coinkidinks in WELS either. Too much shouting "adiaphora" or "Christian Freedom" all the time!