To assert the necessity of asceticism is only to proclaim the fact that we do not perform what is good out of free, spontaneous love to God, but that we have to force our will to such activities by dire compulsion. But this “is certainly calculated to keep the Christian in a state of humility, rather than to establish a feeling of high moral attainments.” That the suppression of our self-love requires unrelenting self-discipline certainly deprives us of every basis for self-satisfaction, every idea of meritorious action, and sternly directs the one who is fasting to seek the forgiveness of sins. Köberle, *Quest for Holiness* pp. 184,185
But the fact is that our quest towards theosis is asceticism. Asceticism at its core is denial of the self, denial of the ego. Marriage is a type of asceticism a complement to the life of monks, whose purpose is the same. Same goal, different means, but both within the tradition of the Church.
ReplyDeleteI'm constantly weary of having to defend myself against the charges that the ascetic life, the monastic life, is somehow compulsory, that those who CHOOSE to do so are, in fact, FORCED. Those are dialectically opposed and it makes no sense.
I thank you for forwarding excerpts of Koberle's works and prayers, but, when it comes to living the angelic life, he simply doesn't get it. Maybe I shouldn't expect him to.
Yeah right, happens all the time in a monkery that you're just all set for a really good Vespers and the community says Not to-night, I've got a headache.
ReplyDeleteThen again, the two becoming one flesh isn't exactly unknown there either.
Koeberle seems to be describing something pretty basic -- that self-denial is not a natural thing to any of us, and recognition of the ultimate futility of his own efforts serves the purpose of seeking the forgiveness of sins, not endless agendae of acts of self denial in order to feel forgiven.
Which in no case validates retreating from the world into which we are sent.
Not only that, Christian monks didn't even come up with any martial arts, so instead of at least bushido we get nothing but bullshido.
Plus, Hindu and Buddhist monks can be very interesting! Grasshoppers, anyone?
ReplyDeleteChristine
I ... am .... Demetrios.
ReplyDeleteI ... can ... help ... you.
when it comes to living the angelic life, he simply doesn't get it. Maybe I shouldn't expect him to.
ReplyDeleteAw shucks, bread and water, a few hair shirts and 48 hours of watching EWTN and Koeberle will get it!
Christine
Obviously, Christine, you have no idea what the monstic life entails apart from what you have seen in the Da Vinci code.
ReplyDeleteAnd it's called a monastery, Past Elder, not a monkery. Your play on words to assume that monks are nothing more than chimps is disingenuous, mean-spirited and, frankly, ludicrous.
Chris.
ReplyDeleteYou'll have to pardon my guffawing at that one.
I saw more than a few monasteries in the U.S. and my native Bavaria, which has many well-known historic ones. My Catholic dad took me to the old Tridentine Mass, not the caricature you see on EWTN as I discovered in my ten years as a Catholic.
As for Past Elder, well . . . trust me, you have no idea what you are saying. Guess you haven't read enough of PE to recognize wordplays when you see them.
Christine
Oh, and one more thing -- I've never seen the DaVinci Code.
ReplyDeleteChristine
Relax Chris -- I spent four years in a monastery school whose roots go back to Metten Abbey in Bavaria in 766. These of course are Bemedictines, the best monks, not merely monked over, in the whole monking world since it monked it first monkery.
ReplyDeleteActually, it's not my word play. I stole it from Rabelais, a fellow veteran of monkatoria. Literary allusions and parodies are a large part of how I write, not to mention irony, all of which makes writing a great source of something which seems entirely foreign to the Orthodox mindset -- fun.
I say what I say not from admiration from afar or visits and books. You should only know what I don't say not from admiration from afar or visits and books.
Like die Christine -- who btw is a direct descendant of Gamelbert -- I have neither read nor seen the da Vinci stuff. Why bother with fiction when the truth is so much stranger.
Just joking about the Gamelbert thing. It was actually one of the dudes we started with from Reichenau.
I've also been married too.
Like they said when I first showed up -- they want to get married, let 'em, then they'll find out what poverty, chastity and obedience are really all about!
PE,
ReplyDeleteI have plenty of fun in this life, but I won't suffer your petty (and they are petty) attacks which you disguise as playfulness.
I'm disappointed. I thought you would begin by pointing out that Benedictines do not actually take the "evangelical counsels" as vows -- that's the damn friars and such -- but have our own (which, for the curious, are stability, conversatio morum and obedience).
ReplyDeleteWe just got a little shower -- did it rain down in Bellevue too?
Speaking of damn friars, I suppose I should mention the 12 years in schools run by Franciscan sisters before the monkination.
ReplyDeleteHell, you think I have harsh words for monkitude, you should have heard the Jebbie who tried to get me to go to St Louis U, and then sent me a book by a bloody Carthusian for God's sake after I went amonk anyway.
Now all those who can't explain why Franciscan women religious are sisters and not nuns, drop and give me twenty paternosters, or face the wrath of my physics teacher Sister Bibiana who explained it to us in no uncertain terms!
Hell, you think I have harsh words for monkitude, you should have heard the Jebbie who tried to get me to go to St Louis U, and then sent me a book by a bloody Carthusian for God's sake after I went amonk anyway.
ReplyDeleteOf course! That's how the Empire fell, when the Barbarians ran amonk all over Europe!
Right you are PE, reading books is not quite the same as "lived experience."
Oh, and one of these days I must tell you about Sister Felixia who taught my husband at Immaculate Heart of Mary School. He used to sneak up on her with the chalkboard eraser and put white marks on her habit (yeah, back in his day they actually still wore them!).
And then the very nice, young sisters who allowed me to play the Virgin Mary during the Christmas pageant at the Catholic kindergarten I attended (they actually wore habits too!).
Memories, memories!
Christine