08 October 2007

Great Thought

"Only respect for the liturgy's fundamental unsponteneity and pre-existing identity can give us what we hope for: the feast in which the great reality comes to us that we ourselves do not manufacture but receive as a gift."

Now, who wrote it and where? And what do you think of it?

16 comments:

Anonymous said...

Pope Benedict XVI, formerly Cardinal Ratzinger. (Ratzinger, The Spirit of the Liturgy, p. 170)
Is it a gentle reminder not to seek to alter by human invention what God has already invented, perfectly? --Philip of Maryville

Timothy May said...

He beat me to it. I second that.

William Weedon said...

Very good! I owe that man a low-carb beer. ;)

Just think, Tim, that beer could have been yours. LOL.

Anonymous said...

Wow! Thanks to the Pope I won a free beer! Only in America. And as I told Pastor yesterday, Miller Lite is an excellent Low Carb beer.
Thanks!

123 said...

It is a very good book. It was, surprisingly, recommended to me by an former Athonite schemamonk in ROCOR.

Best of luck attempting to preach this message of receiving the unspontaneous and pre-existent liturgy as a gift and not a (weekly, seasonally, generationally) manufactured work. Can such respect really be found, though, when liturgy is seen as adiaphora? when the canon of the mass itself is adiaphora and removed? Is it enough to simply be allowed your rite in your congregation? (That's not smart alecky, BTW).

William Weedon said...

Yes, but Miller is from MILWAUKEE and you live outside ST. LOUIS. So you'll be stuck with a St. Louis beer. ;)

Timothy May said...

Give him the Milwaukee beer! He deserves the best.

William Weedon said...

Christopher,

That's a very good question and it goes to the heart of the work. I would suggest that if Benedict can look at the revision of the Roman Rite from Vatican II and defend it (as he does), then he's manifestly NOT intending that the liturgy cannot be "made one's own" in a generation - just that this be done precisely with respecting the third-article gift that the Church's prayer is. As a Lutheran looking our use as contained in *Lutheran Service Book* I see precisely the concern that Benedict voiced within the parameters that the Council itself employed. Past Elder is going to grump at me for saying that, but I think it's true.

LPC said...

Pr. Will,

I think I am sympathetic to Past Elder's position on this. I was an ex-RC and I was in my teens when they turned off Latin on me. Then also I was a Pentecostal for 25 years, so I think I have seen both sides.

I think what is nice about the historic liturgy is that I can go through it without regard to what I feel inside. This is not the case in a Pentecostal worship service. For example, imagine if you are suffering something like cancer and you are asked to sing those bubbly, happy clappy songs? Let me give an example - "Father Abraham, he has many children, many children Father Abraham" (with actions).

But what is good in the historic liturgy is also a double edged sword. I remember when I was going through the Mass even in English, I can check out and do it in auto pilot hence, it is easy to fall into what Jesus said Mt 15:8.

LPC

Anonymous said...

Pr. Cruz,

You wrote: "I remember when I was going through the Mass even in English, I can check out and do it in auto pilot hence, it is easy to fall into what Jesus said Mt 15:8." That is not the fault of the Liturgy. The Liturgy is bigger than you and I and everyone else on earth combined so let's not start trying to reinvent the wheel so people can get "more out of it." Such talk is very anthorpocentric and egocentric.

MHO.

William Weedon said...

Lito,

It is definitely a problem with historic liturgy that it frees you to ignore it. But I'll take that danger any day. Remember Lewis: You're not dancing if you're counting steps; you're not playing piano if you're reading the notes. It's when the steps and notes are mastered that the joy really begins. So with liturgy too. The best liturgy is the one you never even noticed was there because your whole attention was on the Thrice Holy One! I am convinced liturgy can be like that - also among Lutherans. No, it won't be our every Sunday experience, but I believe that the more we practice, the easier it becomes, the more oftener it happens. That's my take, at any rate.

LPC said...

Chris,

I know the Liturgy is bigger and in fact older than me! I will be gone and it will still be around.

My point is not that I am faulting the liturgy - it is how it is used.

In fact even if you come from a free worship style like the Pentecostals, they do have a liturgy. Believe me they do! And I can check out of it too! I know - 4 fast songs and then 4 slow ones - you stand for 40 mins singing.

I guess all of us can check out of it too because when I was a kid going through the Mass, we kids would notice how the Padre was checking out to!

Pr. Will,

Now that I know what is happening in the Liturgy - yes, I know what you mean, if you are looking at your footwork while dancing, absolutely, you will miss the fun (and confuse your partner too).


Peace to you all,

LPC

Anonymous said...

Lewis also has that wonderfully made point (somewhere in his massive amount of writings) about extemporaneous prayer being second to written formal prayers for the simple reason that once cannot fully join in free-form prayers and give your "amen" until you've heard it prayed.
Could this be applied to liturgical forms? I think so.

William Weedon said...

Exactly, Brian!

Anonymous said...

I was an ex-RC and I was in my teens when they turned off Latin on me.

Turned off Latin? Latin has always been and still is the official language of the Roman Church. The forthcoming new Roman Missal has been directly translated from the Latin. With the restoration of the Missal of 1962 I suspect we're going to be hearing a lot more Latin in the Church, both in the ordinary and extraordinary rites.

As far as worship/liturgy being rote, it can happen in any tradition. One needs to connect heart to head.

Benedict's love for and understanding of liturgy is a gift.

Rev. Charles Lehmann said...

You should call that low carb ----.

Just like you should call that stuff you get out of a box ----.