14 August 2013

A picture's worth a thousand words...

...when explaining the difference between the LCMS and the ELCA:

Presiding Bishop Eaton of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America

President Matthew Harrison of the Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod


George said...

So, if she had a mustache, it would be okay? ;)

Unknown said...

So, it all comes down to women's ordination and what title to give the leader? I think the differences are far more profound.

Scott said...

women's ordination is pretty profound.

Rev. Larry Beane said...

Yes, our women ministers wear their stoles to the diagonal.

Scott said...

Well....some of them. Others wear a blue suit with a badge, and others just wear whatever when they go to minister on schools and day-care ctrs.

William Weedon said...

Fr. Beane,

Let us take to heart the 8th commandment's exhortation to us, and put the best construction on the matter:

The AD is clear that this is a LAY office; that it is as a lay person that the woman is assisting in the Distribution of the Eucharist (and for better or worse, our worship book does not specify that the Assisting Minister role be given to males only or to the ordained).

The congregation I grew up in had women elders who assisted in the distribution and were vested. No one mistook them for pastors, however, because they were simply vested as other servants were (the choir in those days also wore the cassock and surplice).

Shoot, in a Synod that frequently puts "confirmation stoles" on young people (ack!), the stole by itself and particularly when worn as a deacon's, does not mean what it always meant (how could it in the LCMS???).

Hence, it's a practice that I think is unwise, inadvisable and would encourage folks to avoid, but it's part and parcel of the mess we've created with AC XIV.

Scott said...

So it is clear, in the LCMS, that women are not to serve as the president of congregations, overseeing the left-hand, mundane, worldly business, but when it comes to the duties entrusted to the man called to attend to the Bride of Christ, to stand in for the Groom, it is unclear?

And we base the allowance of this practice on what our worship book doesn't say, which is the logical fallacy of "Argument from Silence" ?

That it happens, that we grew up with it, only makes it worse.

One thing is most certainly true: We have made a mess.

Scott said...

The most charitable construction on the practice still leaves us with a fracture of the admonition to do everything in good order and to avoid causing the little ones to stumble.

"Choose from among you seven men..."

Respectfully submitted.

Charles Lehmann said...


To compare a deaconess to an usurper of the office of pastor is an insult to the faithful women who serve in that office and do not desire to usurp any pastoral authority.


Scott said...

So...we stopped calling them "Ministers"??

Marjorie said...

Ah, two pictures showing quite the contrast. One a picture of position, pomp, and power where Christ has not authorized. Lord, have mercy. The second a picture of position of humble servant in the stead of Christ, acting at His command to provide the holy meal and forgiveness to His flock. Thank you Lord, for your mercy.