15 April 2010

You must check out

these wonderful pics of the ordination of Pr. Paul Nus at Pr. Lehmann's blog.


Or, as one very wise brother put it at another such ordination, "welcome to the martyrdom!"

I must confess that, as I looked at the picture of all the pastors together, I thought: "Look at all those red necks!" :)


Anonymous said...

brought back found memories of Fr. Herb Lindemann, kneelers in theatrical setting, bet the oldsters hated the posture on the slope, he preaching what I always called a sermon that must be graded an A, never an Aplus (Paul Harms and Warren Rubel did that) but also never an A-, his hands, one on either stole like some hold their suspenders... funny can't remember his assistant pastor in those days... he, the assist. taught us all to make the sign of the cross with the host in distribution which blows the minds of communicants as the try to follow-- I only do it on M. Thurs and Holy Cross... and the meals at Mrs. L's table at Sunday noon... where I learned to do the table prayer standing. Harvey Mozolak

Mrs.Bomberger said...

I seethat my son, Ken Bomberger was in attendance!

Carl Vehse said...

Were any members of Trinity Lutheran Church or Calvary Lutheran Church through whom Rev. Nus was called able to attend their pastor's ordination in Fort Wayne, IN, some 400 miles away? Or was the congregations' Iowa East District President Brian Saunders able to attend the ordination?

William Weedon said...

Dr. Strickert,

You really must memorize Tractatus 65, particularly the words "in his own church."

Rev. Charles Lehmann said...

Dr. Strickert needs to ask the questions to the people who, without engaging in gossip, can answer them.

And he needs to read the Confessions.

And he needs to repent of being a killjoy.

And... well, I'll stop there.

Carl Vehse said...

Rev. Weedon,

What in my two previous questions implied to you that the ordination of Rev. Nus at Redeemer was not a valid ordination or that the questions were opposed to ignoring Treatise 65?

The questions were whether any members of Rev Nus's congregations 400 miles away, or their Iowa East District President were able to attend the ordination.

Carl Vehse said...

Rev. Lehmann,

You're so cute when you get angry. ;-)

William Weedon said...

Dr. Strickert,

I have no way of knowing if any members of his congregation attended. I know that no members of my congregation attended when I was ordained some 200 miles away from where I was called. The Symbols presuppose that ordination ordinarily occurs in a place that HAS a pastor in place already. This was also the Reformation practice at Wittenberg.

Carl Vehse said...

The Symbols presuppose that ordination ordinarily occurs in a place that HAS a pastor in place already”.

The word “presuppose”is not in the Symbols. In expounding on Scripture the Treatise does explain (68-70):

“Here belong the statements of Christ which testify that the keys have been given to the Church, and not merely to certain persons, Matt. 18, 20: Where two or three are gathered together in My name, etc. Lastly, the statement of Peter also confirms this, 1 Pet. 2, 9: Ye are a royal priesthood. These words pertain to the true Church, which certainly has the right to elect and ordain ministers since it alone has the priesthood. And this also a most common custom of the Church testifies. For formerly the people elected pastors and bishops. Then came a bishop, either of that church or a neighboring one, who confirmed the one elected by the laying on of hands; and ordination was nothing else than such a ratification.”

Surely there are neighboring pastors to Trinity Lutheran Church or Calvary Lutheran Church who could have performed the ordination of their called pastor. Of course both Iowa churches, in Christian liberty, had the authority to permit the ordination to be performed elsewhere.

And lest anyone mistakenly assume from your statement that Trinity and Calvary did not have a pastor at the time of Rev. Nus's ordination, Franz Pieper explains: “Ordination to the ministry by the laying on of hands and prayers is not a divine ordinance, but a church custom or ceremony, for, although it is mentioned in Holy Writ, it is not commanded (1 Tim. 4:14; 5:22; 2 Tim. 1:6; Acts 6:6; 8:17). Hence it belongs to the adiaphorous practices. A candidate for the ministry becomes a pastor not by his ordination, but by his call and its acceptance...” (Christian Dogmatics, Vol III., p. 454.)

And J.T. Mueller states: “We therefore rightly classify ordination among the adiaphora and affirm that not the ordination but the call makes a person a minister.” (Christian Dogmatics, CPH, 1934, p. 572)

Finally, Franz Pieper also warns: "Astounding things are taught about ordination within visible Christendom.... Romanizing Lutherans, who refuse to concede that the call extended by a congregation makes a man a minister, but conceive of the ministry as a 'distinct Christian order' which perpetuates itself by conferring the office on new members at their initiation, naturally declare ordination to be a divine ordinance." (Christian Dogmatics. Vol. III., pp. 454-456.)

Carl Vehse said...

"I have no way of knowing if any members of his congregation attended."

Perhaps some members of Rev. Nus's Iowa congregations signed your church's visitors book, or told you later that they appreciated being at the ordination service, or maybe someone mentioned to you that they had greeted a visiting member at the ordination or during a reception (if the members attended).

Furthermore, according to synodical resolutions in 1959 and 1986, as well as Synod Bylaw 2.10.3(a), the rite of ordination should normally take place in the presence of the congregation(s) to which the candidate has been called, unless the calling congregation(s) gives permission for its DP to authorize another location for ordination.

So, just as a pastor normally receives a letter of transfer for people who join his congregation from another LCMS church, one would expect you to have received some communications from the two Iowa congregations (perhaps through the Iowa East DP) through whom the call had been made and accepted by Rev. Nus. Certainly one should not presume to conduct and perform a rite of ordination of an individual without proper and appropriate communication and verification of the man's official call to a congregation, especially in another state, 400 miles away. In such communication with congregational leaders, you may also have been told whether any Iowans would be coming to the ordination service at your church.

In addition, it appears from the photographs at Rev. Lehmann's website that Rev. Nus officiated at the Lord's Supper at Redeemer Lutheran Church (another reason for verifying the Iowa congregations' call documents). If there were any members of Rev. Nus' congregation there, they probably would have identified themselves before taking communion, since you do practice closed communion and would distinguish such members from non-LCMS relatives or guests at the ordination/communion service.

William Weedon said...

Dr. Strickert,

Why on earth would we have had any visitors from Pr. Nuss's parish at our church? I don't know what you're talking about.

Rev. Charles Lehmann said...

Again, all of these things should be taken up with Pr. Nus (one 's') and no one else.

Rev. Charles Lehmann said...

I will only add this:

Dr. Strickert,

Your remarks indicate that you have some doubt over whether things were done in good order where Pr. Nus' ordination was concerned.

In so doing, you are committing libel against Pr. Nus, his two congregations, District President Saunders, and Pr. Petersen (and others). If you think Pr. Petersen didn't have proper authorization to ordain, take it up with him. If you don't think Pr. Nus' congregations were consulted, ask them. If you don't think Pres. Saunders authorized the ordination, ask him. If you don't think Pr. Nus practiced closed communion, ask him.

Don't assume. Ask the responsible parties.

But, in the end, it's absolutely none of your business. You are not a member of one of Pr. Nus' congregations, the Iowa District East, or even Redeemer, Fort Wayne. You simply are trying your best to put a cloud over a day of joy, and I'll have none of it.

I don't know why I'm writing this. The reason I banned you at my blog is that I don't really want to talk to you... ever.

Carl Vehse said...

Rev. Weedon: "Why on earth would we have had any visitors from Pr. Nuss's parish at our church?"

Since Rev. Nus is the pastor God called through their congregations, it is reasonable to have asked (as I did at 8:54 pm) if any members from those Iowa congregations were able to attend their pastor's ordination at your church in Indiana.

Why on earth was there the kind of response that has been made to such a question?

Rev. Lehmann: "Your remarks indicate that you have some doubt over whether things were done in good order where Pr. Nus' ordination was concerned."

Rev. Lehmann, No, my remarks indicate no such doubt about the ordination. In the meantime, you should try not to be so bitter against what you read. Don't assume. Ask the responsible party.

William Weedon said...

Dr. Strickert,

My church is not in Indiana. It is St. Paul's in Hamel Illinois. The church where Pr. Nus was ordained is in Indiana, and is Redeemer Lutheran Church in Fort Wayne where Pr. Petersen is pastor.

Carl Vehse said...

Rev. Weedon,

Oops. Mea culpa! Right church; wrong pastor! I have sent my 8:54 PM question to Rev. Petersen.

And my 1:27 PM post regarding the visitors' book, a reception, communications with the Iowa congegations, the communion service, etc., at Redeemer Lutheran Church would be to Rev. Petersen, rather than you, since he, as pastor there, was the one involved and likely to have met any Iowa visitors if they attended the ordination.

I do still stand by my quotes from the Treatise, Pieper, and Mueller.

As for the ordination at Redeemer, with Rev. Petersen (rather than you) officiating, whether anyone from Iowa was able to attend or not, my question did not indicate or imply any doubt about the validity of the ordination or the call of Rev. Nus to Trinity Lutheran Church and Calvary Lutheran Church.