...the existence of eucharistic devotion in the Lutheran communion must, it would seem to me, be accounted for by Roman Catholics in one of four ways:
1. It is a blasphemous, idolatrous sham and a diabolical deception.
2. Or, it is a response of an exceptional and uncovenented grace which a superabundantly compassionate God gives to people who would like to have a valid Eucharist but cannot because their clergymen are not able to confect valid Eucharists. (One might think of St. Augustine's *Crede et manducasti.*)
3. Or, it is the result of valid Eucharists which a superabundantly compassionate God validates in an exceptional and uncovenanted manner in spite of the intrinsic incompetence of the celebrants to confect valid Eucharists.
4. Or, Lutheran Eucharists are valid because Lutheran clergymen possess the authority of order through presumptively valid orders. That Lutherans choose the fourth option is obvious. There may even be a basis in Roman Catholic theology for this explation. It ill becomes me to speak on this point, I know, but it seems to me that if I were a Roman Catholic I might be moved to ask if, on the basis (a) of 1 Tim. 4:14, (b) of St. Jerome's *Commentary on the Letter to Titus*, I, v. 9-13, (c) of the bulls *Sacrae religionis* (Feb 1, 1400) and *Apostolicae Sedis providentia*(Feb. 6, 1403) of Boniface IX, (d) of the bull *Exposit* (April 9, 1489) of Innocent VIII, (f) of the stipulations of Canon 951 of the 1917 Code of Canon Law, and (g) of the analogy with confirmation, it may not be true that at his ordination a priest receives the power to confer holy orders, and if it may not be remotely conceivable that Lutherans possess through irregular presbyteral succession the power to confer orders and to confect valid sacraments. I am not, however, Roman Catholic and know of no Roman Catholic who has seriously pursued this line of argument.
--Piepkorn, *The Church* pp. 132, 133 [Picture is hijacked from my good friend Heath Curtis' website; note that I call him my good friend, even though he tells me that I am a recovering Methodist! He is a non-recovering Thomist, but we love him anyway.]
11 comments:
In the last week or so I read some of B16's comments on the subject, and he considers it well within the Western / Roman understanding that Lutheran Eucharists are valid, though defective in that they are not in communion with the Roman See.
Too bad Pieps did not live to see Our
German Shepherd in action.
Also read, probably in Pro Ecclesia, an article on the surprising number of lines of presbyterial succession in the Western Church, canonicaly regularized of course, when conditions permitted.
Lutheran orders have been en extremis for over half a millenium, would be a good thing all round if sooner rather than later some strokes of pens on both sides got busy. One gets the impression from reading OGS that when the time is right, the stroke of a pen is what it will be.
I don't know about this "popish" argument. In his *Inaestimabile Donum* Pope John Paul II declared it was beyond the competence of the Church (and hence of the papacy) to authorize the "ordination" of women, and I don't see why an "episcopalian" pope might not likewise declare that those quite rare instances of papal authorizations (three or four between 1389 and 1403, as I recall) for presbyteral ordination of presbyters were not themselves invalid and abusive. Certainly, the whole drift of Vatican II's statemebts on the church and on bishops goes pretty far in the direction of ruling out Medieval and "Jeromian" presbyterianism, and the whole drift of Catholic ecumenical dialogues with the Orthodox and even the Anglicans is to uphold a very strong view of episcopacy.
Dr. Tighe,
Of course, you know that Piepkorn in other places provides further examples, including the account of St. Willihad or some such...
So which, as a Roman Catholic, would you punt back to: 1, 2, or 3?
Or do you ahve a 5 that Piepkorn did not think of?
Fr. Heath,
I am not sure if it is the same or not. I've only got essays copied out from *The Church* and I didn't copy the introductions to the essays. I have the book on backorder from ALPB and am eagerly awaiting it.
The Ratzinger remark that is pertinent is from the most recent Lutheran-Catholic dialog,
"I count among the most important results of the ecumenical dialogues the insight that the issue of the eucharist cannot be narrowed to the problem of 'validity'. Even a theology oriented to the concept of succession, such as that which holds in the Catholic and in the Orthodox church, need not in any way deny the salvation-granting presence of the Lord (Heilschaffende Gegenwart des Herrn) in a Lutheran (evangelische) Lord's Supper."
I wrote this down on a notecard, am unable at this time to find the articles in question, as the entire house is in a state of grande unsettlement due to simultaneous re-roofing, floor joist repairs (books, whudda thunk), and kitchen restoration,,,,,,,, not to mention the great caterwalling being raised up by a number of most unsettled house cats.
In the last year, the issue of the presbyterial succession shows up in scholarly articles,,,,,, one does wonder if something is afoot. I read an article on http://www.ratzingerfanclub.com about at the right time a stroke of the papal pen happening. Max Lachmann years ago said as much, to the effect that history will show that to be the way the reconciliation happens.
Juhl,
Ain't he great? He absolutely cracks me up. And what a mind God has given the young whippersnapper! I think I want to be him too when I grow up - only he needs to get an earring, don't you think? ; ) "Man jewelry" as he calls it.
Fr. Hank,
HE said that? That is so cool!!! And true. God bless our German Shepherd indeed. I still remember his election. I was on my knees and the tears wouldn't stop. How could it be that my all time favorite RC liturgiologist would be sitting on Peter's chair? Unbelievable! May God grant Him many years! A pope that knows Luther and has read him in detail! Amazing!
And do keep in mind that Our German Shepherd on any number of occasions has said and written that the Augustana is a Western Catholic creed. Just waiting for the right time for that stroke of the pen.
The pertinent question is will there be enough of the Church of the Augustana left to see/hear that stroke.
In your 'spare time' do bookmark the ratzingerfanclub website,,,,, lots of good reading. Do you recall his comment that Vatican II relied too heavily on Tielhard and not enough on Luther ?
Fr. Heath:
Ratzinger
Has anyone on this thread read the essays in Ratzinger's *Church, Ecumenism and Politics* (New York, 1988: Continuum; London, 1997: St. Paul Publications)? The book is long out of print, and the occasional copy available on www.abebooks.com is frightfully expsnsive, but it does contain two essays relevant to the Catholic/Lutheran ecumenical scene in Germany (20+ years ago), and one (polite, but with strongly reserved, perhaps even sceptical, undertones) on Anglican/Catholic agreed statements. Alas, my copy is not to hand, so I can't refer to it easily, but I remember enough of it strongly to recommend it.
do you think Cwirla was inspired by this discussion?
http://blog.higherthings.org/wcwirla/article/2085.html
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