10 October 2015

Patristic Quote of the Day

The Father willed not to leave us this inheritance, but was wroth against us, and was displeased with us as being estranged from Him; He (Christ) accordingly became Mediator between us and Him, and prevailed with Him... We had offended; we ought to have died; He died for us and made us worthy of the Testament.—St. John Chrysostom, Homily 16 on Hebrews, paragraph 2.

5 comments:

Unknown said...

Proving once again that Chrysostom was a great speaker, but a poor theologian.
Peace and Joy!
George A. Marquart





Unknown said...

My earlier comment should not just hang there. To believe that our Lord had to overcome His Father’s wrath with us in order to save us is a perversion of Scripture and the will of God. We were not saved by a Sacrament of Hatred but by a Sacrament of the most unimaginable love and mercy in which the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit joined together. There was no disagreement. There could not have been disagreement. We all know what happened the last time there was a disagreement in heaven.
Chrysostom: The Father willed not to leave us this inheritance
Scripture: Luke 12: 32 “Fear not, little flock, for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.”
Chrysostom: but was wroth against us, and was displeased with us as being estranged from Him;
Scripture: John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life. 17 Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Chrysostom: accordingly became Mediator between us and Him, and prevailed with Him.
Scripture: John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.”
Peace and Joy!
George A. Marquart

Joe said...

Love the quote!

Christ is our Mediator indeed!

Unknown said...

Joe, Christ is indeed our Mediator, but Chrysostom makes it sound as if the Father did not want to save us but He, our Lord Jesus, convinced Him to do so. In other words, the mediation first took place between members of the Most Holy Trinity and then, once agreement was reached, this mediation was extended to us. My point and that of all Christendom is, 2 Corinthians 5:19, “that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.”
It is also worth noting that in civil courts, mediators must not have a conflict of interests. But in our case, one of the parties to the mediation becomes the mediator. This is a typical case in which God shows His love for us, knowing that impartiality would not work, because we would definitely be condemned. It is somewhat reminiscent of God’s covenant with Abraham. This covenant became a one-sided one when God caused Abraham to go to sleep during the ratification ceremony, thus indicating that all of the obligations were on God. Same as our salvation.
Peace and Joy!
George A. Marquart

Joe said...

Hi George.

I do not see this "conflict of interest" that you speak of. God is angry with sin. Jesus saves us from God's wrath.

I fail to see the need to break harmony with the Godhead from this quote.

After this quote he says:

"And what then? How did He become Mediator? He brought words from [Him] and brought [them to us], conveying over what came from the Father to us, and adding His own death thereto. We had offended: we ought to have died: He died for us and made us worthy of the Testament. By this is the Testament secure, in that henceforward it is not made for the unworthy. "

Perhaps I am missing something but just don't see any issue with Chrysostom's quote.

In Him,

Joe