29 January 2009

I put this

in one of the com boxes down below, but I think it's important enough to be in a post of its own. Check it out:

1970 Press Release

It's a piece of the history of the dialog between Rome and the Lutherans in the US that I was wholly ignorant of until Fr. Beane mentioned it. Rome's hierarchy never acted upon it, of course, but I find it of great interest that a number of bishops and theologians on the Roman side would actually recommend it at all.


Past Elder said...

Judas Priest. I should have guessed from the date and from finding "the spirit of Vatican II" on p3. Problem is, that Lutheran churches are "truly Christian churches" is not said in the documents of Vatican II at all.

What is said, is that elements of the truth of the Catholic faith can and do exist outside the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church, which the RCC has always said, and added that where these elements have been authentically cultivated, for example Biblical scholarship, this fruit can be gratefully received.

Nonetheless, such church bodies lack constituitive elements Christ has given to his church, both in not having them and in not believing they exist, and therefore cannot be properly called churches.

Among these are valid Holy Orders and therefore a valid Eucharist.

The only argument advanced for the recognition of Lutheran Eucharists as valid is that since Christ wills we be one, we gotta say we are one and they're OK.

Then back off entirely on whether this confers the validity or recognises a validity already there, at the same time saying the traditional criteria they question they do not question for their own church.

Man. No surprise some of my old boys -- Godfrey, Killian -- were signatories.

On our side of the fence it doesn't really matter that this one thing for us but we'll find another for you so we're all one is completely apart from Catholicism pre or post VII.

What does matter is that a recognition by the RCC on this basis of our Orders and Eucharist is entirely meaningless, sidestepping altogether the basis, rooted in the Gospel, on which we know our Orders and Eucharist to be valid!

Not to mention you know where most of the "Lutheran" side ended up -- Seminex (hosted by Catholics) and the E?CA.

"The ecumenical urgency flowing from Christ's will for unity" dictates these clowns cut the crap and make the profession of faith I did on joining the evangelical Lutheran church.

Past Elder said...

Should have guessed? I should have remembered! I was in the middle of those boys when the bleeder was written! Guess I'm trying to forget.