Dr. Noland was a popular and frequent guest on Issues, Etc.
17 comments:
Anonymous
said...
This is sad news. I don't follow the inner workings of CHI but in a similar fashion I believe we can ask 'Why?' I thought CHI was the repository of our church's history and archives (and to some extent Lutheran history in America). Why was there a need to can the director of CHI? Was CHI broken that it needed to be fixed? What's the deal with all the people being fired in our church? And how long before reasons are given for this? I'm grateful that I am not in a position to be fired. Maybe someday...
Your beloved Missouri Synod is going through a Stalinist purge. Soon they will actually start going after confessional pastors of congregations. Quit giving in and fight Pope Kieschnik!
I've nothing but respect for Dr. Noland. My (limited) impression of him is of an affable, intelligent churchman. Let's put the best construction on this and assume that there was no wrong-doing. Charity commands this of us.
But I don't think we can cry "Purge!" in good conscience either. Wait and see what reasons are given.
Christopher (hall) No offense but 'Wait wait and see what reasons are given?' Yes, I would do that, except for the people we've been dealing with for the past 7 years. Wait and see what reasons are given means; 'wait for the deliberate silence of the Synod to be broken when the questions of 'why' become a nuisance. It mans wait for a cascade of obfuscate thinking and tautologies in the form of a 'pastoral' letter. It means waiting to be told to trust big brother in the name and for the sake of Christ because the boss knows what's best for us. It means waiting to be spoken down to yet again and treated like children who should run allong and get on with the program.
Every time the Synod steps in it up to their proverbial necks, we are asked to wait and see, be charitable.
Hmmmmm. Former Concordia Historical Institute Director Martin Noland has an earned Ph.D. in history theology from Union Theological Seminary with his 1996 dissertation, "Harnack's historicism: the genesis, development, and institutionalization of historicism and its expression in the thought of Adolf von Harnack".
Sounds "Historical" to me.
It'll be amusing to see the spin-doctoring the COP tries to put out on this... with no dissenting votes.
Thank you for calling me "good." However, I am not being silent, as you would be able to tell from visiting my linked blog and read the posts I've written, under my own name.
But until someone says if there was due cause, there is nothing to say. Until we find out from Dr. Noland or the Board that he did nothing to deserve termination, then we'd better be quiet, lest we give the impression of conspiracy theorists. I am not going to make a fool of myself in spouting off before I am informed. I'm foolish enough already.
But some are just happy to blast away under hidden names with no consequence.
I think my good friend, Pr. Hall, is just pointing out that we don't have any facts at the moment other than termination. It's still a shock to us all, and we wonder what on earth it means. But at this point, to be truthful and charitable, we haven't a clue. I'm sure we won't have to wait too long to find out what's up. At least, I hope so.
Here's what I first wrote: "Let's put the best construction on this and assume that there was no wrong-doing. Charity commands this of us."
And I also wrote, "But until someone says if there was due cause, there is nothing to say. Until we find out from Dr. Noland or the Board that he did nothing to deserve termination, then we'd better be quiet, lest we give the impression of conspiracy theorists."
The best construction is that Noland did nothing wrong.
There. Now I've written it again for the third time. Likewise, the best construction is that there is a dritte Ding between wrong doing and Confessional Purge.
Thanks, Bill, for your clarification for me. I'm giving up commenting today, less I become uncharitable to those who are second-guessing everything.
On a more general note: I don't think that the 8th commandment requires us to be willfully Pollyannish. Nor does it forbid second-guessing, healthy suspicion or scepticism. Otherwise none of us would lock our doors at night or make our teenaged daughters keep the bedroom door open when a boy is visiting.
Synodical leaders are using the 8th commandment to escape accountability. Caution is advised.
That was very unhelpful of you to post the link to the video. It made me think words only heard in Quentin Tarantino movies (Lord have mercy on me, a sinner).
Well, all I can say is that I am glad I was only a somewhat frequent caller to Issues, Etc., not a guest, so I cannot be fired. But Todd and I were members of the same congregation for a few years so that could implicate me in something diabolical I suppose. I played handbells with Maria also, so I guess you could say I was ringing with the enemy. And I was a guest at a very swanky dinner to raise money for the Concordia Historical Institute last year and don't remember them saying heads would roll if we didn't give enough. No, no I have learned that just not liking contemporary crap music in opposition to GK is reason enough to be on the death list. If he can't get you to join his minions he will try to win by removing the church out from under you. If we stubborn confessionals won't kowtow to him, he will find a way to weed us out. We are not divided?
17 comments:
This is sad news. I don't follow the inner workings of CHI but in a similar fashion I believe we can ask 'Why?' I thought CHI was the repository of our church's history and archives (and to some extent Lutheran history in America). Why was there a need to can the director of CHI? Was CHI broken that it needed to be fixed? What's the deal with all the people being fired in our church? And how long before reasons are given for this? I'm grateful that I am not in a position to be fired. Maybe someday...
Thanks for posting this sad news. Jeremy
Your beloved Missouri Synod is going through a Stalinist purge. Soon they will actually start going after confessional pastors of congregations. Quit giving in and fight Pope Kieschnik!
I've nothing but respect for Dr. Noland. My (limited) impression of him is of an affable, intelligent churchman. Let's put the best construction on this and assume that there was no wrong-doing. Charity commands this of us.
But I don't think we can cry "Purge!" in good conscience either. Wait and see what reasons are given.
Come come, don't you know he was fired for financial and programmatic reasons?
CHI apparently is not making enough money to support itself.
Christopher (hall)
No offense but 'Wait wait and see what reasons are given?'
Yes, I would do that, except for the people we've been dealing with for the past 7 years.
Wait and see what reasons are given means; 'wait for the deliberate silence of the Synod to be broken when the questions of 'why' become a nuisance. It mans wait for a cascade of obfuscate thinking and tautologies in the form of a 'pastoral' letter. It means waiting to be told to trust big brother in the name and for the sake of Christ because the boss knows what's best for us. It means waiting to be spoken down to yet again and treated like children who should run allong and get on with the program.
Every time the Synod steps in it up to their proverbial necks, we are asked to wait and see, be charitable.
And while good men are silent, more abuses occur.
Hmmmmm. Former Concordia Historical Institute Director Martin Noland has an earned Ph.D. in history theology from Union Theological Seminary with his 1996 dissertation, "Harnack's historicism: the genesis, development, and institutionalization of historicism and its expression in the thought of Adolf von Harnack".
Sounds "Historical" to me.
It'll be amusing to see the spin-doctoring the COP tries to put out on this... with no dissenting votes.
"Stone the Crows,"
Thank you for calling me "good." However, I am not being silent, as you would be able to tell from visiting my linked blog and read the posts I've written, under my own name.
But until someone says if there was due cause, there is nothing to say. Until we find out from Dr. Noland or the Board that he did nothing to deserve termination, then we'd better be quiet, lest we give the impression of conspiracy theorists. I am not going to make a fool of myself in spouting off before I am informed. I'm foolish enough already.
But some are just happy to blast away under hidden names with no consequence.
Christopher,
Are you auggesting that until we hear that Dr. Noland "did nothing to deserve termination" we whould assume that he did?
That's an odd application of "put the best construction on everything."
I think my good friend, Pr. Hall, is just pointing out that we don't have any facts at the moment other than termination. It's still a shock to us all, and we wonder what on earth it means. But at this point, to be truthful and charitable, we haven't a clue. I'm sure we won't have to wait too long to find out what's up. At least, I hope so.
Apparently my communications skills are lacking.
Here's what I first wrote: "Let's put the best construction on this and assume that there was no wrong-doing. Charity commands this of us."
And I also wrote, "But until someone says if there was due cause, there is nothing to say. Until we find out from Dr. Noland or the Board that he did nothing to deserve termination, then we'd better be quiet, lest we give the impression of conspiracy theorists."
The best construction is that Noland did nothing wrong.
There. Now I've written it again for the third time. Likewise, the best construction is that there is a dritte Ding between wrong doing and Confessional Purge.
Thanks, Bill, for your clarification for me. I'm giving up commenting today, less I become uncharitable to those who are second-guessing everything.
Peace out.
Christopher,
Thank you for your clarification.
On a more general note: I don't think that the 8th commandment requires us to be willfully Pollyannish. Nor does it forbid second-guessing, healthy suspicion or scepticism. Otherwise none of us would lock our doors at night or make our teenaged daughters keep the bedroom door open when a boy is visiting.
Synodical leaders are using the 8th commandment to escape accountability. Caution is advised.
On a very exciting note, Pastor Wilken chimed in with this:
As for a public dialog, when the new show is up and running, feel free to call and disagree with anything we say or have said.
TW
Scroll about three quarters through the comments and you'll find him.
I could not care less what the best construction is or what the kindest explanation is.
All I care about in this matter is, what is the construction that is actually there, and what is the explanation that is factual and true.
Anybody ever been fired, or allowed to resign so as not to be? It ain't just another day at the office, everything's fine, business as usual.
Scott,
That was very unhelpful of you to post the link to the video. It made me think words only heard in Quentin Tarantino movies (Lord have mercy on me, a sinner).
How very disturbing. The big heads. Yrrrrr.
Kidding about the "unhelpful" part, of course ;)
Pertaining to the youtube link posted... please forgive me for appearing ignorant or obtuse or just not getting it...
But... what in the world is that??
Is that for real? Or a joke? Is that some "play" or production or is that some denominations real liturgical service of some kind?
If that is a joke, it is ... uhm... rather bizarre and about as offensive as the "Hunky Jesus" contests in SF around Easter.
If it is for real, that is truly disturbing!
Matt B.
Well, all I can say is that I am glad I was only a somewhat frequent caller to Issues, Etc., not a guest, so I cannot be fired. But Todd and I were members of the same congregation for a few years so that could implicate me in something diabolical I suppose. I played handbells with Maria also, so I guess you could say I was ringing with the enemy. And I was a guest at a very swanky dinner to raise money for the Concordia Historical Institute last year and don't remember them saying heads would roll if we didn't give enough. No, no I have learned that just not liking contemporary crap music in opposition to GK is reason enough to be on the death list. If he can't get you to join his minions he will try to win by removing the church out from under you. If we stubborn confessionals won't kowtow to him, he will find a way to weed us out. We are not divided?
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