21 November 2011

Will be very curious

to hear the response of our Roman brothers and sisters to the changes in Mass that will take place this coming Sunday. Ironically, some of those changes will actually be bringing their form of the liturgy a tad closer to the form we use in the Lutheran Service Book.


Chris said...

Does the LSB have the congregants say "And also with you" or "And with thy spirt" after the priest (pastor) blesses saying, "Peace be to all?"

Terry Maher said...

Not at all. The novus ordo has not changed and it well predates LSB. The "changes" are in the translation only, and the irony is the new translation brings Mass in English closer to what the novus ordo has actually said all along.

Rev. David M. Juhl said...

A local newspaper ran a story about the changes last weekend. The priest and some parishoners spoke in favor about the language changes. One parishoner commented that the young people would be the ones more effected by the changes, since the soon-to-be outdated language is all they know.

Mimi said...

It's interesting because I also think it brings things in line with Orthodox responses.

Really, I think they've been working with sloppy translations previously, I guess.

Larry Luder said...

A tad closer indeed. A small step, but none the less it is a step closer to toward Jesus' fervent prayer that we be one. May Jesus' prietly prayer be ours.

Larry Luder said...


William Weedon said...


Chris, sadly, LSB has THREE responses to the salutation.

DS 3 retains: "And with thy spirit."
DS 1,2,4,5 have: "And also with you."
Matins/Vespers have: "And with your spirit."

Hence, the people ALWAYS have to look down to see what to respond. It is the silliest thing in the whole book, bar none. But since we almost always use DS 3, that's the "normal" response around here!

Terry Maher said...

Oh for God's sake. The whole point of the novus ordo -- some of whose authors were my professors -- was to Greek up the Mass. To date, the Orthodox remain unimpressed, and rightly so.

Actually DSI/II do a better job of Rome's task than Rome did itself, which is not entirely a compliment, since it is Rome's task, not ours. Whereas it presents a truncated version of the First Litany of the Eastern Rite, the novus ordo recasts it as a penitential rite, collapsing it with the confession of sin, which in the Eastern Rite does not even happen there. For the times we have (insert sin of choice), Lord have mercy, etc.

The whole thing is a total non-event, except for Roman Catholics. We are not Roman Catholics.

Andrew Smith said...

Moving the kyrie back into the penitential rite, that's what the LCMS did at the opening service for the 2010 Synodical Convention in Houston. I first saw that in the ELS hymnal back in '96, maybe? I think it fundamentally misunderstands the kyrie as greeting and hopeful expectation for the mercy of the Lord. See Kleinig, Grace upon Grace.