22 July 2006

Predigt!

I've been blessed in my vicars, no two ways about it. Each has been a delight to watch and to HEAR as they grow in their preaching. In each of them, there comes a sermon when they cross a boundary. It's hard to describe, but suddenly it is not a student learning to preach (and even doing well) but a giving of the gift that is so decisive I want to stand up and shout "Amen!" Vicar Lehmann's sermon did that tonight. He didn't read it; he preached it. And there's a difference, but don't ask me what it is. I just know it when I hear it.

12 comments:

Anonymous said...

You are very fortunate, indeed, to have witnessed this so many times.

Congratulations to Vicar.

Deb

Fr John W Fenton said...

It is indeed a wonderful thing to see the growth and maturation of anyone--particularly a preacher. It's too bad that it must come at the expense of AC XIV and the Predigtsamt traditio of the western catholic church.

William Weedon said...

Ah, the Unding of Vicar... Well, at least he had hands laid upon him....

William Weedon said...

Nisi rite vocatus - without being ritely called, i.e., ordained. To be in conformity with AC XIV, vicars should be ordained at least as deacons so that they may preach in conformity with the Symbols. Sadly, the practice arises of making a "temporary" office out of the vicarage so that on August 1, Vicar Lehmann will just be plain, old seminarian Lehmann. We consider him a deacon - and he is put into office by the laying on of hands - but this is not recognized by the other parishes of the Synod, and it needs a Synod-wide solution. And so the Vicar as it exists and is largely practiced is an Unding, a non-thing. It doesn't fit the parameters of the Symbols of the Church to which the vicar will one day promise adherence.

William Weedon said...

Dear Stagiare,

Are you a vicar yourself? Stagiare means intern, no?

Ordination and "rite vocatus" are the same thing. If someone asks me: how do you know you are called? The answer is not to look within myself for a sense of God's calling. I look at the document that reminds me that a congregation called me to be their pastor. God is the originator of that call, to be sure, but it was given through his people. How that is all arranged has, of course, varied across history. But it involves election, consent (Axios!) and being put into the office with prayer and the laying on of hands. As Luther said: "God ordains." But He ordains through His Church.

When Vicar Lehmann is no more Vicar at St. Paul's, he will be sans any office in the Church until he is given a call and ordained - aside, of course, from the glorious calling as a baptized royal priest.

It is that odd state that a man returns to on the finishing of vicarage that seems so wrong. That's why I believe it is far better that the vicars be ordained as deacons and that they hold that office in the Church until they ordained as prebyters. Then we'd be in conformity with the words of AC XIV, and we'd be rejoicing also with the German of Apology XIII: "Denn die Kirche hat Gottes Befehl, dass sie soll Prediger *und Diakonos* bestellen." (par 12)

William Weedon said...

Very interesting thoughts, Pr. Curtis. I believe that Walther headed that direction too when it came to students preaching - they were "on the way" to the Office and so neither in nor out of it.

What do you make of the Gottes Befehl though regarding the deacons in Apology (admittedly, Jonas' German)? Perhaps the word is being used as "assistant pastor" as I know it was at Bach's time (Stiller's work) and perhaps earlier.

Rev. Larry Beane said...

First of all, I agree with Fr. Weedon about ordaining vicars as deacons (this is how my vicarage was handled).

Will some deacons quit seminary and never be ordained as presbyters? Sure. But I know of several of my classmates who have (or are) leaving the ministry after a year or two. Same problem. We will have ordained presbyters teaching school or (as I did for a while) working at a video store. Some men leave the ministry - whether as presbyters or as deacons - it happens.

Some men may only want to be deacons. Like one of my pals quipped: "What the LCMS needs are male deaconesses." There may be a role for LCMS deacons besides being vicars.

The current LCMS "office" of vicar is basically a lot of slight-of-hand. Is he preaching? Well, [cough] no his bishop is preaching - the bishop is just using the vicar as a sort-of reverse Pinnochio - a real boy who is acting as a puppet, just without strings. You can't even see Weedon's lips move when Lehmann preaches! We all know this is giving AC14 a yoga workout... A very Clintonian way of looking at AC14: "I did not preach that sermon..."

A way around Pr. Curtis' well-worded objections about the unity of the office (which doesn't seem to be a problem for Lutherans in Scandinavia and Africa that have retained the traditional de humano threefold distinction of the office) would be to abolish the vicarage program and simply have ordained pastors serve as curates for a year after ordaination. That way, they'd get the "internship" experience, but can preach and say Mass while being fully in line with AC14.

I underdstand that vicarage is a newer thing anyway, that was a result of a glut of seminarians and not enough calls. Too many bad things happen to vicars: many are ordered to say "Mass," to "absolve" and to "preach" with no oversight. The seminaries turn the "Nelson's Eye" to such abuses.

Just have three years of sem, give the man an M.Div., lay hands on him, and place him on restricted status for a year pending completion of a curacy. At that point (after completion of curacy), he can receive a diploma of fitness for receiving a congregational call. Furthermore, the year of internship as a curate could be optional, if the seminary believes a man is mature enough, he could bypass it.

Anonymous said...

Just a few things.

1. The LCMS has historically been opposed to a provisional licesning of independant preachers. Many of the other synods of the time of the LCMS's founding, including the Ohio Synod, would issue preaching licenses to folks. Missouri expressly rejected this - either a man is a pastor or he isn't.

2. It was noted that Vicar Lehmann will soon just be Seminarian Lehmann. Technically speaking if we follow the RC and Anglican parlance, his full title will be "Reverend Seminarian Lehmann" - Seminarians have claim to "Rev". I think that wording, although not commonly used, does re-inforce the idea of a transitory stage into the office - or perhaps even goes beyond that.

Rev. Larry Beane said...

Christopher:

You raise a lot of excellent points, and have given great food for thought. However, I don't agree that having curates wouldn reconstruct vicarage. It would give rookie pastors the benefit of serving with a man of experience (which is a great benefit - I'm an associate pastor, and my role is rather different than a vicar) without causing an AC14 problem.

Lutherans and other historic Christian confessions have had curates for centuries (e.g. the curates in Bo Giertz's "Hammer of God"). Curates are common in the Anglican Catholic Church, for example, and used to be in the Roman Church (I'm sure the clergy shortage makes this next to impossible today).

Could such a system be abused? Of course! But I believe it would be a vast improvement and would bring us into line with AC14.

If it is of no value to team a younger pastor up with an experienced man, why not simply abolish vicarage entirely, ordain the man after three years, and send him to the parish with no restrictions? I'm not opposed to it, but I do see value in serving with (or in some cases under) a more seasoned pastor for a time.

In my own case, I have the privilege to serve with a senior pastor who has many years of experience both in the U.S. and in the mission field in Mexico - and I am grateful. I have no restrictions on my ministry, and we share the load evenly - and yet, I am an associate pastor. I get all the benefits of learning from a colleague and friend. There is no violation of AC14 in this arrangement.

Jesus sent out his first batch of preachers two by two. I consider it a profound blessing to serve with another pastor - and he has said the same on many occasions. We both have pastors of our own, enjoy more flexibility in our schedules, and the parish has more pastoral care available.

I just don't see a down side to having ordained curates (as opposed to vicars) - even though it is unlikely to ever happen in the LCMS.

RevFisk said...

Right or wrong, the best part of my vicarage was my fourth year back at Sem, where everything I'd learned and experienced could be tested in and with the consolation and tentatio of the brethren. I'd hate for our pastors in Christ to lose that valuable experience.

This, of course, does nothing to solve the very valuable contra-points which have been made on the issue.

Also, Pr. Weedon, I'd be curious to hear your response to Stagiare's most recent comments.

William Weedon said...

I don't trust my senses too much. : )

But I do trust the call that God has given me through the congregation. It's the real deal.

Anonymous said...

Rev. Weedon,
I would point out that the good bishop Slavik addresses me as "Reverend Father Deacon."