08 February 2008

Old Lutheran Quote of the Day

Our Church in common with both the Roman and Greek Churches, does hold to a true presence of the whole Christ, the factor of which is not our mind, but his own divine person. We do not think him into the Supper, but he is verily and indeed there. Faith does not put him there, but finds him there. - Krauth, *The Conservative Reformation* p. 343


Christopher Palo said...

Who is Krauth kidding? There is little similarity between the understanding of the Eucharist with regards to true presence. Presence and actual ontological existence are not the same thing. What we perceive is in reality the body and blood, not both commingled.

William Weedon said...

What do you mean by "both commingled"?

Virgil Hoffman said...

Is there anything more disheartening than Christians who recognize and confess the "presence" of Christ "in" the Eucharist bickering about the "how" of his presence?

I completely side with Luther: we can confess that he is truly present. I don't go in for all, or any, of the bickering about how.

Anyone else with me here?

William Weedon said...

Virgil, it's not merely a question, though, of the "presence of Christ" in the Eucharist. It is the question of the presence of His very body (the body born of Mary) and His very blood (the blood that was shed upon Calvary's cross) being put into our mouths for the forgiveness of our sins. So while Luther could care less about the sophistry of explaining "how" the miracle could take place that the bread is Christ's body and the wine is His blood, he never once hesitated to affirm that confession of this with clarity and without dodging the words of Christ is a must for communion at any altar to which he would extend the hand of fellowship.

Virgil Hoffman said...

Rev. Weedon,
That may very well be (about Luther, I have no doubt that he was adamant about the "presence" of Christ in the sacrament) but my comment was more directed at the Christopher Palo (and those who want to quibble about the mode and means of "presence").


William Weedon said...


Christopher is an Orthodox Christian. He either does not believe that or does not know if we Lutherans actually have the true Sacrament of the Altar because he does not believe that Lutheran pastors possess the apostolic succession and the communion with Orthodox bishops that would authorize such a sacrament in our midst. For us Lutherans looking at the Orthodox, the matter is entirely different. We KNOW that they have the Sacrament of the Altar, the same as we do, because the bread and wine are consecrated by the Words of our Lord and the man doing so is authorized to do so by the Lord of the Church.